The US/Taliban peace talks are a grim charade. No one in the foreign policy establishment will acknowledge the fact, but the Taliban are strict, Sharia-observant Muslims, and the Sharia guidelines for treaty-making with Infidels are based on Muhammad’s Treaty of Hudaybiyya. Muslims can only enter into such a treaty when they are weak and need time to gather their strength (or, more remotely, if they think the enemy is about to convert to Islam). Then they can break it when it is no longer needed. The Taliban will not honor whatever treaty is made. However, if it enables Trump to get US troops out of Afghanistan, then it will have at least one good result. Yes, the Taliban will gain when the troops are gone. That would be true no matter when we left. What we need is a better strategy, one that contains jihad activity within Afghanistan and doesn’t allow them to target Americans again. We don’t need American troops there until the end of time.
“U.S., Taliban Agree to Landmark Ceasefire,” by Adam Kredo, Washington Free Beacon, February 21, 2020:
The United States and the Taliban have reached a landmark agreement that will significantly reduce violence in Afghanistan and pave the way for the two sides to negotiate a peace deal that could bring the 18-year war in the country to a final end, the State Department announced on Friday.
“The United States and the Taliban have been engaged in extensive talks to facilitate a political settlement to end the war in Afghanistan, reduce United States and Allied Forces presence, and ensure that no terrorist group ever uses Afghan soil to threaten the United States or our allies,” Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said early Friday in a statement.
The agreement, being referred to officially as a “reduction in violence” accord, will pave the way for the Trump administration and the Taliban to engage in peace talks that could see most American forces finally exit the country. The first prong of this agreement will go into effect later tonight, U.S. officials said.
“In recent weeks, in consultation with the Government of National Unity, U.S. negotiators in Doha have come to an understanding with the Taliban on a significant and nationwide reduction in violence across Afghanistan,” Pompeo said.
“Upon a successful implementation of this understanding, signing of the U.S.-Taliban agreement is expected to move forward. We are preparing for the signing to take place on February 29,” according to the secretary of state. “Intra-Afghan negotiations will start soon thereafter, and will build on this fundamental step to deliver a comprehensive and permanent ceasefire and the future political roadmap for Afghanistan. The only way to achieve a sustainable peace in Afghanistan is for Afghans to come together and agree on the way forward.”
“Challenges remain, but the progress made in Doha provides hope and represents a real opportunity,” Pompeo said. “The United States calls on all Afghans to seize this moment.”…
Dude says
We all know what a treaty with them is worth. They are authorized to lie. It will be like the ceasefire with Osama’s gang in the mountains. Any agreement is only good until it no longer benefits them. They have no honour – as they tell us lies to our faces, as though we are the idiots. DUH.
gravenimage says
Yep.
Jerry says
Sieze fire and piss with the Taliban.
The POTUS is delusional.
No greater reliability or duration than the non-agression pact between the Jews of the Khybar had with Mohammad.
It works like this: You dont’t attack them and it will remain quiet until they choose to attack you.
You are bound by your agreement.
They are not.
Debra says
Enough already. Pull the troops and institute a travel ban. Withdraw every penny of so-called aid and redevelopment money. Starve the beast. After decades of multiple countries tweaking this country, the water-level needs to be found. Someday, from the ashes, maybe a new reassessment can be made.
Debra says
Sorry, Jerry. My comment was meant to be a general comment, not a reply to yours.
Queen B says
When exactly was the last time the US emerged a clear victor after the trillions spent on an overloaded war machine ? It’s a disgrace the Taliban walks away an equal on the battlefield.
Jerry says
USA gets defeated in Congress, the Leftird Universities and the Leftist Islamic sponsored Media.
WithPurpleAbandon says
Extracting military resources from any muslim hornets nest is always the smarter thing to do. It’s totally impossible to tame a country like Afghanistan, and history has proven this multiple times.
Afghans don’t like interference from foreign forces in their country, which is particularly true of the Pashtos, who are constantly embroiled in internecine violence, based on feudal clan lineage. They’d rather fight among themselves without being disturbed in the process by outsiders who want to “civilize” them in some way. You simply can’t keep forces posted there forever. Three Anglo-Afghan Wars have been fought in the past and the British had to leave. The Soviets had to leave. And after everyone had left, they had a Civil War (1992-2001)
Which proves my point, I believe. If the US leaves, I think Americans won’t lose anything. There’s simply nothing to gain in this country. If anything, normal business will resume with another Civil War in Afghanistan.
It will go on and on. So be it. That’s simply the Afghan way of doing things.
mortimer says
If NATO leaves Afghanistan it will have to come back in a couple of years and rebuild everything the Taliban wrecked.
WithPurpleAbandon says
I say: “Let Afghans wreck their country if that’s what they want to do in perpetuity. They are conditioned that way.”
Their attitude will never be remediated. Sure enough, we could drop bombs on the Taliban’s head, but there’s no point putting boots on the ground, I believe. It will all amount to the same: another round of getting NATO troops bogged down for years on end. It will be more of the same.
gravenimage says
Why would NATO want to return to this hornet’s nest?
WithPurpleAbandon says
They shouldn’t return ever. Otherwise the cycle of violence will repeat itself ad nauseam and it will go as follows:
Afghan Civil War —-> foreign troops barging in —> foreign troops getting bogged down for years on end —-> foreign troops decide to leave —> Afghan Civil War —-> foreign troops barging in —> foreign troops getting bogged down for years on end —-> foreign troops decide to leave —-> Afghan Civil War —-> ….etc.
Any decision to leave now and to never return is the smartest decision that can be made.
Nobody on this planet will ever be able to do any good for this country.
Infidel says
Actually, the ‘Afghans’ have been tamed various times in history. The first time when they were Islamized after the Arab conquest of Iran, then in the 11th century when Genghiz Khan’s hordes razed Herat as a part of his campaign against the Khwarezm sultanate, then again under Tamerlane and Nader Shah. Reason they all succeeded is that nobody ever bothered about human rights: they just razed every city that dared oppose them.
The reason US went in in the first place was 9/11, when the Taliban refused to hand over Osama. And Operation Enduring Freedom was a resounding success: by December 2001, the Taliban had lost both Kabul and Kandahar, and Mullah Omar went into hiding, and ultimately died years later. There was no need to stay back, re-write a new Afghan constitution and spend 16 years of nation-building: US troops should have been pulled out right away!
I also disagree w/ Mortimer above that NATO will have to come back. If the US simply adds Afghanistan and more importantly, Pakistan, to the travel ban, they won’t have to worry even if al Qaeda or ISIS set up shop in Kabul
WithPurpleAbandon says
The Afghans became islamized for sure, but they are still an unruly bunch when it comes to fighting among themselves, and that will never change. Even Nader Shah was playing off Pashto clans against each other to gain the upper hand, favoring the Abdali clan against the Hotaki clan at the time.
cornelius says
I’m all for leaving, but I have difficulty imagining what Robert has in mind with this statement….
>What we need is a better strategy, one that contains jihad activity within Afghanistan and doesn’t allow them to target Americans again.
How do we do that? If the Taliban open up the training camps like they had pre-invasion, what are we to do about it? How will we prevent those trained in mayhem from infiltrating into Pakistan and from there, to the rest of the world?
I’m with Robert…..we need to leave. Squandering our precious blood and treasure in a God-forsaken wasteland like Afghanistan makes no sense…but I have no illusions that there won’t be undeniable (and potentially severe) repercussions for leaving.
Infidel says
As long as there are no repercussions within the US, we should be fine. Under the Travel Ban, we have a template for keeping ourselves safe: we should add Afghanistan and Pakistan to that list, so that we don’t have to bother about their people either hijacking planes, or shooting up Christmas Parties like ??Sayeed Farook/Tasfeen Malik or gay bars like ??Omar Mateen.
Beyond that, the State Department should have an advisory for those countries for Americans that simply says ‘Travel at your own risk’. Then if American morons decide to go trekking to Peshawar, Jalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalabad, Kandahar, Lahore, Karachi or Multan, they’re on their own
gravenimage says
Add Afghanistan to the travel ban.
Infidel says
And Pakistan too, even before Afghanistan. Leave a NYT office there as our liaison w/ the Haqqani network
gravenimage says
Yes–Pakistan needs to be on that list, as well.
mortimer says
Robert Spencer is certainly right that “The Taliban will not honor whatever treaty is made.” The Islamic teaching on ‘temporary treaties’ will allow the Taliban to break the treaty whenever they like.
A NATO presence is required until Afghastlistan is sufficiently modernized and militarily organized to fight its own battles. When all girls are in school and they all finish secondary diplomas, Afghanistan will become stable. The big battle is thus to get Afghan girls in school to bring the country into the 21st century.
WithPurpleAbandon says
“A NATO presence is required until Afghastlistan is sufficiently modernized and militarily organized to fight its own battles.”
Traditionally, Afghans will always fight their own battles…against each other. That’s my whole point : the whole culture of ethnic and clan enmities makes such a thing unthinkable. Sending NATO troops until Afghanistan is sufficiently modernized sounds totally impossible. When did a muslim country ever become modernized under the influence of Westerners suddenly barging in and literally laying down the law with Western concepts of democratization and modernization, when such concepts are inherently deemed kuffar by muslims ?
I’ve never seen such a thing happen before in history. It’s not going to happen in the future, either.
gravenimage says
Mortimer–with all respect–how will a 100% Muslim nation *ever* be sufficiently modernized? And the idea that Afghanistan is actually committed to fighting Jihad but just lacks the military acumen to do so is pretty damned iffy.
Walter Sieruk says
It’s very important for the US officials when engaging “peace talks” with the Taliban not be gullible and naive as to trust the Taliban to keep their word in anything that they might promise .
For as more and more American military forces leave Afghanistan,Taliban , we may be sure , will become more and more brutal cruel and oppressive towards the people of Afghanistan, especially towards women .
For example,on the morning of April 17, 2019 on FOX NEWS television the subject was covered about the idea of having “peace talks “with the Taliban. Viewing the history of the Taliban when they were in power in Afghanistan and the brutal ruthless misogyny they had engaged in was both vicious and malicious to the extreme.
Therefore the question, naturally, was brought up, now that peace talks” might soon begin, the Taliban was asked if they return to power in Afghanistan “ would they respect female rights ?”
To that question the Taliban replied “that when back in power they would respect.
Women‘s rights but only to the limits of the cultural of will they permit those rights of women.”
The point is that the “cultural of Afghanistan” is really the religion of Afghanistan, which is Islam.
Therefore the reality is that female rights, for both girls and woman, will not exist in a future Taliban controlled Islamic state of Afghanistan . For Islam is a religion of harsh and malice- filled misogyny.
As explained in the book, by Brigitte Gabriel, of the title THEY MUST BE STOPPED. Her book informs the readers on page 172. “Woman in Islam are considered unclean, deemed inferior even to dirt.”
gravenimage says
Why should we engage the bloody Taliban at all? We know what they plan to do.
Walter Sieruk says
As the US troop’s leave Afghanistan so will the Taliban become more arrogant , misogynist , tyrannical and blatantly vicious in their ruthless behavior toward the people of Afghanistan that they have the power over.
Therefore any “peace” agreement with Taliban is a “Deal with devil “ in other words a “fools deal.” The very idea of having actual, real, genuine productive “peace talks” with those brutal ,cruel misogynistic Taliban characters is an absurd and fool idea of folly.
One thing is for sure, even if even attempting to engage on “peace talks” with Taliban it would be best not to be naïve about them and take at face value anything that they might say or promise. To just “give trust away” to those Islamic characters who compose the Taliban would be foolishness and folly. For when trying to have genuine negotiations with the them ,it need to be kept in mind that there is an Islamic doctrine called TAQIYYA This is the Muslim dogma the lying and deception are good things to do, if and as long as the lies and deceit are done for the advancement of Islam.
For the deceptive and disingenuous Taliban have proven many times over, by their own actions, that they are a ruthless, brutal vicious gang of thugs with no honor. So in any kind of “dialogue” the Taliban will most likely speak the truth only when it happened to suite them. The rest of the time they will be speaking half-truths and also be outright lying. Likewise, the Taliban will keep their word in anything that they may happen to promise only and long as in fits into their agenda and no longer. So before engaging of the foolishness of attempting to have genuine “talks for a peace alliance” with Taliban, the officials of the current government would do well to heed the wisdom of Sun Tzu found in THE ART OF WAR. For it instructs “We cannot enter into an alliance neighboring’s princes, until we are acquainted with their designs.” To put this in a more updated and current way, it may be said that “We cannot enter into a peace alliance with the Taliban until we know the actual intentions and real schemes.”
Furthermore, if attempting to engage in “peace talks” with Taliban it would be very naïve to take at face value anything that the Taliban might promise. For example, the Taliban might say that they will respect the rights of women and girls, for they ,many times, employ the Islamic doctrine of Taqiyya In those so called “negotiations” with officials of the West .Taaqyia ids the Islamic teaching that lying and deceit
So it may be nothing but foolishness and folly to even try to have worthwhile constructive peace discussions with lying brutal cruel men who make up the Taliban . For having a genuine practical peace compromise with Taliban might be impossible
As the former US President, Franklin D. Roosevelt, had well-spoken when he said “There has never been – there never can be – successful compromise between good and evil.”
Roland says
When the US leaves Afghanistan, other powers may have reason to increase their forces there. China, India, Russia, and Pakistan. Pakistan is, of course, up to no good, but the others may want to counter the Taliban.
Infidel says
I thought of something. Since President Trump often talks about leaning on others to share the burden, here’s an idea. Since he’s such pals w/ Prince Mohammed bin Salman, how about getting him and his GCC allies into this project:
– Arrange for the OIC to put a peacekeeping mission in Afghanistan, replacing both US and NATO troops. That way, there will be only Muslims, and the Taliban won’t have an islamic rationale for killing them. And if they do, the OIC can deal w/ it;
– Pick Muslim countries that don’t have a history of interfering in Afghanistan. In other words, no role for Pakistan, Iran, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan or Turkmenistan. Maybe have countries like Bangladesh, Indonesia, Malaysia, Brunei, Azerbaijan, Egypt form the OIC peacekeeping mission to occupy Afghanistan, w/ a mandate to manage things until peace returns
– The tab for this gets picked up by the oil rich OIC members – not just Saudi Arabia, but also Kuwait, Bahrein, Emirates, Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan, Libya, Algeria, Morocco, Turkmenistan and any others I may have missed. They can also decide whether they wanna engage in nationbuilding or not
The US and other infidel countries all pack up and leave. For ever!
Infidel says
Ooops, scratch
Turkmenistanfrom the last bulletgravenimage says
I wouldn’t count on that, Roland:
“The odd couple: China’s deepening relationship with the Taliban”
https://www.trtworld.com/opinion/the-odd-couple-china-s-deepening-relationship-with-the-taliban-28712
Infidel says
I’m all for Beijing making countries like Afghanistan and Pakistan a part of their belt/road empire. They’ll find out very quickly that they bit off more than they can chew. Yeah, there’s no way either Islamabad nor Kabul will be able to pay back their debts, so they may well forfeit their lands/projects, but the Chinese will have as much fun as the Soviets did in Afghanistan during the 80s.
Prediction: like it brought down the Soviet Union, it will likely break up China as well – so badly that not only will Tibet and Xinjiang get their independence, but every province of China will as well. Guangdong will become a part of Hong Kong, and Manchuria will become independent once again
gravenimage says
US and Taliban agree to ceasefire that could see most American forces leave Afghanistan
……………..
Why are we even going through the motions of negotiating with these thugs?
Infidel says
Yeah, we should just quickly and quietly withdraw everybody, and let the chips fall where they may. Or, if we really want them to remain stable, do what I suggested above and get the Saudis and OIC involved (see that post for details)
Janice Mermikli says
For the Taliban, this is a “hudna”, which is a truce or ceasefire. It is certainly not peace, because Islam recognises no permanent peace with the infidel, but just an opportunity to regroup ready for another attack, until Islam prevails over the whole world. It is a pity that so many people and, especially, governments, seem not to be aware of this.
gravenimage says
+1
Chand says
Robert Spencer says: “Yes, the Taliban will gain when the troops are gone. That would be true no matter when we left. What we need is a better strategy, one that contains jihad activity within Afghanistan and doesn’t allow them to target Americans again. We don’t need American troops there until the end of time.”
Chand says
Ya but when the Taliban is back there will inevitably be global jihadi activities there again. And IS Khorasan is already working hard there. So foreign troops have to there to prevent that as the Afghan army is still too weak, inept and corrupt to beat them everywhere.
Will this deal last? Or is the Taliban only pausing to regroup and start again?
Will the Russians step in here again if the US quits for good now? The biggest danger of jihadism in Afghanistan is to the Central Asian nations and India.
Infidel says
The global jihadist activity will only resume if the Taliban gains a stable control over the whole country, like it did b/w 1996-2001. During that time, an Air India plane was hijacked to Kandahar, and India had to trade a terrorist for the entire aircraft: what was more humiliating was that terrorist being escorted by their foreign minister. But if Afghanistan is in a constant state of war b/w factions vying for control, it won’t risk becoming a jihadist haven: jihadists too need a stable place to plan their activities.
If foreign troops have to be there, then as I suggested, they can be an OIC peacekeeping army formed out of Muslim troops w/ no history in Afghanistan – from Bangladesh, Egypt, Indonesia, et al. And financed by all the major oil rich states – Saudi Arabia, Libya, Kazakhstan, Emirates, Kuwait, et al
gravenimage says
Of course, the Afghan army is not just weak, inept and corrupt–the are also Islamic. In fact, most Afghans agree with the aims of the Taliban.
As for how long this deal will last, at best it will last only until the last American leaves. More likely and given their history, it won’t even last that long.
As for Russia, they have been suspected of supplying the Taliban, so the idea that they are going to go in and fight them seems implausible.
OLD GUY says
I’am glad to see us bring our military home from that area of the world, however I have no faith in the negotiations with these islamic liars. The Taliban along with the other islamic terror groups will never be at peace with the christian world beyond their borders. They will continue their jihad.
staffsgt7 says
I personally don’t care if they go after each other – I say to take a step back and let them have at each other. But, can you trust them to keep their word? In 1400 years, Islamic honor of cease fires, peace, etc have been broken as soon as possible – as soon as they are rearmed/regrouped. It is called a hudna.
No, I don’t think they will keep their word because the excuse is that allah didn’t tell them to keep it.