It’s little, it’s late, it’s tentative, but it is no longer a denial. Occasionally an honest and bold commentator mentions the unmentionable in the Israeli media: Jewish dhimmitude under Islam. It usually doesn’t get very far. The Jerusalem Post on March 23, 2020 puts a toe in the water with Rabbi Eli Kavon’s Maimonides on Jewish Humiliation under Islamic Rule. It is the smallest toe, gently inserted to make no ripples. Kavon quotes Maimonides:
“God has entangled us with this people, the nation of Ishmael, who treat us so prejudicially and who legislate our harm and hatred…. No nation has ever arisen more harmful than they, nor has anyone done more to humiliate us, degrade us, and consolidate hatred against us.”
Kavon continues, “The myth that historians have propagated is that Jewish life under the Muslims was safer and more successful than the life of Jews in Christendom.” Kudos to Kavon; yes, it is a myth.
Kavon’s extremely brief and carefully-worded treatment of the Jewish dhimmitude question betrays a deep knowledge and understanding of the history of Jewish-Muslim relations, existentially-critical to Jews in Israel, but alas, glaringly lacking. It is not that Jews cannot know this history; they can — it is probably fair to say that as a people, the Jews are among the most learned of all peoples. Rather, it is a history they do not want to know.
Bizarrely, it is not their wrongdoing that the Jews are in denial of; it is their being wronged. Bat Ye’or, in her groundbreaking Understanding Dhimmitude, describes the ferocity with which her book was received in learned Jewish circles, as if acknowledging that Jews were systematically oppressed and abused under Islamic rule is somehow to imply that the Jewish experience under Christian or Nazi rule was less horrible than it was. Bat Ye’or’s book appeared in 2013, when the narrative of “Israeli oppression of the Palestinians,” and “Jewish occupation of Palestinian land,” was well-entrenched and BDS was in full swing. Still, neither of these would explain the Zionists’ apparent ignorance of the Jewish dhimmi experience and its root cause, which allowed them to be caught so off-guard in 1948.
The long-beleaguered Israeli liberal establishment badly wanted, and still want, to be the good guys and the nice guys. You cannot be good if you cannot be nice to all the good Israeli Muslim Arabs in your midst, such is the belief. It’s only the extremists who want to kill all Jews, or failing that, drive them all into the sea. Most Muslims are nice people. We just need to find a way of living together. Few seem to notice that it is only one side that is looking for that elusive way. Fewer still have any inkling at all of what Islam teaches Muslims about Jews, and what Islam expects of Muslims vis-à-vis the Jews, and what is taught in the madrassas and preached in the mosques both in Israel and in “the territories.” If they did, then they would know that it is the very thing that Moses Maimonides warned them about.
Kavon cannot conceal that within him, too, lurks the desperate wish to find the good Muslim that leads him to misinterpret the available data. He takes pains, for example, to distinguish between Maimonides’ experience under the Almohads in al-Andalus and the Maghreb (bad guys), and his experience under the Fatimids and Ayyubids in Egypt (good guys), thereby avoiding having to incriminate the Islamic texts and raise questions about those who adhere to those same texts today.
This is not to suggest that Kavon goes easy on dhimmitude; far from it. “We should not idealise Jewish life under the Muslims which, in some cases, was just as bad as life in Christian lands,” warns Kavon. “Apologists for Islam focus on the positive,” he continues, “and negate much that was negative for Jews living under Muslim authority. The dhimmi humiliation was in force most of the time and the Muslims despised Judaism as a false faith.”
The good rabbi concludes with, “Maimonides’s harsh censure of Islam should come as no surprise for those who have studied the history of Jews under Islam since the epoch of Muhammad.” Indeed, and Bat Ye’or’s Understanding Dhimmitude would not be a bad place to start, followed by Robert Spencer’s The Palestinian Delusion: The Catastrophic History of the Middle East Peace Process, for the consequences of not studying that history.
A. Nonymous says
Sorry, but l’ll take dhimmitude over pogroms every time!
Wellington says
“Sorry, but I’ll take dhimmitude over pogroms every time!” I won’t.
Both are awful but in different ways. Besides, and what is far more important to comprehend, when Christians engaged in pogroms against Jews they were not fulfilling any dictate in the New Testament, indeed they were violating the tenets of their creed, but when Muslims enact all the humiliating aspects of dhimmitude upon Jews they are FULFILLING many times over the requirements of their warped religion. Huge difference. Couldn’t be more of a contrast.
Ideology matters more than whether adherents of whatever ideology wrongly implement (or don’t implement) that ideology. Ideology is key and not behavior which is not in accord with the ideology in question. In the long run, ideas matter most. Proceed from here. And besides, better dead than a dhimmi—this too is a major consideration because, a la the New Hampshire motto, “Live Free Or Die.”
mgoldberg says
The reality of the changes in christians that have eliminated most of the abominations against jews can never be equaled by Islam. Individual muslims might indeed be, but not Islam, and since it hasn’t been able to recognize the reality and scope of it’s Jihad, it cannot ever by command of it’s own theology.
RichardL says
Thank you, Catholics are the Jews best friends. I was raised to believe that the Jews are our older brothers and sisters. Christians who hate Jews are not Christians. Unfortunately, Martin Luther’s vicious hatred of the Jews persists but the real Jew haters are the lefties.
mortimer says
Nonymous speaks from lack of historical knowledge of the subject of Islamic supremacism. How did Dhimmitude work for the conquered races? It was disastrous.
Mohammed entered Jewish-majority Yathrib as a refugee, then changed the name to ‘Medina’ (capital city). Within two years, no Jew was living in Medina. Ottoman Turkey was once 40% Christian, today it is 0.5% Christian.
Muslims invaded Hindustan and proceeded to exterminate 80 million Hindus. Muslims destroyed thousands of Hindu temples and shrines. That was Dhimmitude INDIAN-STYLE.
Southern Spain was once all Christian. When the Muslim Moors arrived, they ethnically cleansed all of Southern Spain, exiled most of the population to north Africa and destroyed all the churches. It took 600 years to push the totalitarian Muslims from Spain.
‘Nonymous’ should do some homework before posting spontaneous, unread speculation. NON-SENSE!
gravenimage says
Good post, Mortimer.
Anjuli Pandavar says
That’s the mentality of a slave.
mortimer says
Agree. ‘Nonymous’ does have a ‘slave mentality’. Euripides wrote: ‘A slave is one who may not speak his thoughts.’
When someone is afraid and unwilling to make a valid criticism of Islam, that is the clearest proof that the person is a DHIMMI.
gravenimage says
Is “A. Nonymous” dishonest or just ignorant?
These were *hardly* mutually exclusive. How would he characterize something like the Farhud, where Jews were attacked and murdered in Baghdad in 1941? Would he consider it fine because it was done by Muslims to Jews already living under crushing dhimmitude?
There are many other such horrible stories historically.
Wellington says
“…dishonest or just ignorant?”
Well, gravenimage, it’s one or the other for sure.
Every defense of Islam fails. I know of no defense of this putrid religion that has ever succeeded. I mean I have never read one damn apologia for this religion which has even remotely convinced me that I may have been too harsh on it.
James Lincoln says
+1
mortimer says
Why can’t Nonymous choose both?
Lauren Hermann says
+10
ElderlyZionist says
Thanks gravenimage, I was just going to write that myself. Muslims do pogroms very well, like the Nabi Musa riots (Jerusalem 1920) or the Hebron massacre of 1929. They just have a different word for it.
gravenimage says
Grimly true, ElderlyZionist.
Honest Ali says
That is the response of a coward. Dhimmitude had, and still has, frequent pogroms. Cowards like you, who submit willingly, are why Islam is winning.
DHazard says
Real persecution. Real victims. People ARE out to get them. Millions of Muslims want to see them vanish from the Earth. But still they succeed and reward the World with gifts that are far out of proportion to their numbers.
gravenimage says
Jewish Dhimmitude under Islam Creeps into the Open
……………………
Good to see this terrible subject being broached.
jewdog says
Sure, dhimmitude may be better that death if you don’t live in New Hampshire, but here’s the reality: If you refuse dhimmitude, then the Muslims will try to kill you for sure, and that is precisely why they want to exterminate Israel.
mortimer says
Yes, Anjuli, I agree. Kudos to Rabbi Kavon; yes, it is a myth.
Thank you, Rabbi Kavon.
The truth will set us free.
mortimer says
Superb conclusion by Pandavar : “It is not that Jews cannot know this history; they can — it is probably fair to say that as a people, the Jews are among the most learned of all peoples. Rather, it is a history they do not want to know.” Yes, they have amnesia about the lamentable oppression of Jewry under Islam.
Sadly, THEY CHOOSE NOT TO KNOW … that cocksure, secular, globalist, neo-Marxist crew. Their minds are sealed shut if it doesn’t fit THIS WEEK’S official party line or narrative.
Frank Anderson says
Mortimer, my friend and Rabbi for more than 20 years exploded when questioned about Islam’s hatred of Jews. He had been taught in Rabbinical school (5 years after a Bachelor’s degree) how great was Jewish life under islam. He refused to follow the teaching to ask ALL questions repeatedly. He and at least 75 percent of all US Jews follow your description, according to Jewish publications. The remainder, if they disagree, dare not express the disagreement, or they will be excluded. There comes a price for “community” that is too high. I miss them and wish better for them. “There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.”
OREN WYSOCKI says
The Jews in europe grew numerous, they defended their genes better than the Jews in the middle east as is proven in their IQ scores, and they grew powerful enough to establish the nation of Israel, while middle east Jews fled every single one of the muslim countries with almost nothing but suitcases in hand.
Mostly censorship and pro brown racism keeps the truth from being known. In G-d I trust.
Rufolino says
This article and the comments revelatory. Thankyou.
Aussie Infidel says
A Jewish acquaintance fits the profile Anjuli describes. He praises the Almohads in al-Andalus for their ‘kindly’ treatment of the Jews and for ‘rescuing’ them from the Christians – who he hates with a vengeance. He continually rejects what I point out to him in the Islamic scriptures; and argues that “you cannot take any notice of the Hadith, because “not all Muslims accept them”. And when I refer to some of the verses in the Quran – which all Muslims do accept – he white-washes them too as simply referring to “a particular period of history, when everyone was against Muhammad”.
He quotes all the ‘good’ verses like, “There shall be no compulsion in religion”, Q2:256); “Forgive them and overlook their misdeeds “, (5:13), etc. But he conveniently ignores verses like, “Whoever desires other than Islam as religion – never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers.” (Q3:85); ” do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies” (3:28, 5:51); that Muhammad became a warlord and treated the Jews badly and that he introduced the jizya tax (9:29), and institutionalized hatred of the Jews in verses like Q5:64, He always quotes the Meccan verses and the early Medinan verses like 2:47.
And when I point out to him that there have been over 36,000 deadly jihadist attacks since 9/11, he dismisses that as “someone’s opinion and fake news” – even though I gave him the website to check for himself. https://thereligionofpeace.com/.
It’s a typical case of being hard to teach old dogs new tricks.
Kepha says
Your Jewish friend praises the Almohads? Holy moly! The Almohads, in the late 12th century, drove lots of their Jewish and Christian subjects into Portugal, Castille, and Aragon due to their harshness toward the Dhimmi!
Too bad we’re on school closure. A propos another supposedly “tolerant” Islamic state, in covering the Ottoman decline, I pointed out institutions like devirsme, abduction of girls, and juzya as rievances of the Millet-e-Rum against their overlords; hence the Serb and Greek revolts. When we go into imperialism, I plan to mention the Arab slave trade.
gravenimage says
All too common, sadly.
Niemoller says
It seems today’s Jews are equally divided between “Never again!” and “Thank you sir, may I have another?!?”
Frank Anderson says
Half of Germany’s Jews did what they could and had to in order to escape the Nazis. The other half either did not have a way to escape or saw no reason to try. Is the lesson to be learned again?
Niemoller says
Apparently it is. The same goes for people in general who don’t learn from history. Btw, my second reference, in case anyone missed it, is from the movie Animal House, when a young Kevin Bacon is getting spanked for his sadistic fraternity initiation rites, lol.
Frank Anderson says
N., I am pretty sure I ran Animal House when I was working as a movie projectionist. ONE of the really great movies. Blues Brothers is another.
Rarely says
Which is the lesser of two evils? Who knows. Take your pick. Historically, were Jews better off (i.e. safer) under muslim rule than Christian? Until the 1800s there were few relatively safe places for Jews in Europe. Ironically, some of the best were the Germanic states.
A nonymous was simply stating what his choice would likely be IF he had to make one. Of course that’s a view of history and not of the current situation.
What would your choice be if you had to make one?
Frank Anderson says
R. As I read history, many history books reaching back to the origins of Judaism, Jews have never had an easy time or safe place. That includes nominally Christian environments up to Nazi Germany. One of the points covered in Spencer’s Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam AND THE CRUSADES was that the first Crusade never made it past Germany where Jews were slaughtered. Jews have been used as the “evil other” by many. See, e.g. Constantine’s Sword. I hope it is clear that I think differently.
I cannot reconcile the slanderous teaching displayed in the Passion Play at Oberammergau. Such incredible distortions of Jewish teachings and practices which do nothing but inflame and continue Jewish hatred, when it was Roman puppets who served at Roman pleasure as Priests, high and otherwise, to maintain order for Roman masters, who were the actual betrayers of Jesus. No person could be punished without the complete approval of the Roman masters. No person could confess for all time the guilt of all Jews for the crime of Romans. See Deut 24:16, The father shall not be held for the sins of the son; nor shall the son be held for the sins of the father.
A choice between pre-Holocaust Christianity and Islam at any time in its 1400 years is nothing more than a choice between hanging and firing squad. The ultimate intended result is the same-elimination of Judaism from the face of the earth. Some Christians have changed. Moslems cannot change. That is why Israel is so important to Jews.
commonsense says
Frank A: Excellent comment.
Frank Anderson says
C.S., for most of the more than 20 years that I was present in the local Jewish community, if the doors were open I was there. I actually listened and learned. I had good teachers and examples. Much time and effort has been applied to think about what I heard. If I can learn, so also can others.
Anjuli Pandavar says
‘Which is the lesser of two evils? Who knows. Take your pick.”
—
The answer to this question is irrelevant. What is relevant is the question itself. In what kind of psyche would such a question even be entertained? That would be like a black person asking, “Would I rather be a slave of Muslims or a slave of whites?” Is there any black person on earth who asks themselves such a question? Try enslaving me. Just try it! There’s no choice for me to make here.
What I find so chilling about “l’ll take dhimmitude over pogroms every time!” is that the question is obviously not just a thought experiment. It is a choice considered in all earnestness in the *expectation* of one day again ending up as a downtrodden people under the yoke, whip and boot of some tyrannical overlord. “Every time?” Seriously? Does such a person believe it is their *destiny* to be someone else’s Untermensch? That their freedom is but a temporary interlude? Guess what, on the other side of that yoke, whip and boot, Muslims hold exactly the same expectation: Jews may live it up today, but one day they will again be our dhimmis, and by Allah, will we pay them back for their insolence!
“Sorry, but l’ll take dhimmitude over pogroms every time!” is a knee-jerk dismissal of a notion too terrifying to contemplate, that of being a permanently free and independent people *defending their freedom and independence* against all comers. It is like, yes, we have our Jewish National Home, but history is fickle and, just in case, we’d better not get our hopes up too high. Do you not have an awesome, plucky, little country admired by your friends and the envy of your enemies? Have you not suffered too much to recover your homeland? Do you not have a top-notch military that no one would dare mess with, especially those pathetic armies that you still think will come back someday to make your people dhimmis again?
Why should you ever have to choose between two evils? Why not fight them both and destroy them both? Does this insistence that the only choice is between two evils explain the readiness of so many Jews to capitulate? “Land for peace,” etc. Cut a deal for less humiliation, less oppression, less suffering, in the future dhimmitude sure to come?
“Free at last, Free at last, Thank God almighty we are free at last.” The one who keeps alive in some dark recess of their mind the possibility that they will one day again have to choose between two evil overlords is, quite evidently, not yet free.
Rarely says
Frank.
Glad you agree with me.
BTW. To the dead it makes little ( i.e. NO) difference if the murder was sanctioned by the murderer’s religion or not.
However, when trying to make peace it is very NB to know if the other side’s religion allows them to do so.
Frank Anderson says
R. While in law school, I was most of the video recording function for the last 2 years, which included recording many mock negotiation classes. That inspired me to find and read 6 paperbacks on negotiation (Obviously I appreciate a spectrum of opinions when seeking my own). ALL of the writers agreed, as do I, that some “deals” are impossible and a complete waste of effort. There will never be peace between Judaism and islam. or for that matter any other community and islam. Either all will convert or die, or islam will end. There is no middle ground. That has been their rule for 1400 years. Believe them. They mean it. Read Viktor Frankl;s Man’s Search for Meaning to understand “the delusion of reprieve”.
I don’t know what NB means?
Tony Naim says
I invite Mr Robert Spencer to translate the book
Entitled: “ Ahkam ahl alzoumma” written by ibn Kayyim Aljouziya.
A 14th century imam and Muslim (Hanbali) jurist who is The founder of Dhimmitude, with all its laws codified in this book.
Maybe your reader’s hair will fall upon understanding from the source the actual standing of Dhimmis (Christians and Jews) in Islam.
There is no other book in Human literature or in our common history that is more vicious in its content of hatred, discrimination and prejudice .
It’s values are anathema to our Republic.
All Arab Muslim states still uphold these laws in legal practice today.
gravenimage says
Tony, it’s hard to know if the Pact of Umar actually dates to his time or not, but certainly dhimmitude much predates the 14th century.
Ibn Ksayyi, Aljouziya may have codified it, though.
But yes–dhimmitude is considered to hold for all time. We see what the Islamic State did when they got into power.