What will France be like when these students grow up? The answer is not difficult or elusive in the slightest degree. But no one wants to face it.
“Freedom of expression at school: ‘For my students, Charlie Hebdo is the extreme right,'” translated from “Liberté d’expression à l’école : ‘Pour mes élèves, Charlie Hebdo, c’est l’extrême droite,'” by Anthony Cortes and Célia Cuordifede, Marianne, October 19, 2020:
The assassination of Professor Samuel Paty upsets the faculty. After the feeling of revulsion, there is this fear of rubbing shoulders with forbidden subjects: religion, cartoons and freedom of expression.
Gaël J. apologizes, he “shouldn’t”. He shouldn’t use this martial vocabulary. Obviously, a teacher shouldn’t say that, especially not at the start of a career. A professor of history and geography at a college at the Amiens Academy (Somme), this 30-year-old who is retraining apologizes. One, two, three times. Then he blurted out these offensive words: “The death of 47-year-old colleague Samuel Paty is a loss on the front lines, at the front. Suddenly, we understand that we are doing a dangerous job. The day before yesterday, I didn’t think about it, and today it jumps out at me: we are potential targets.”
Deep down, he knew it without really formulating it. Simply, this drama brings him abruptly back to his mission, to his daily life, and to these sometimes tricky paths, often polluted by excesses. The most mined land? The hours of moral and civic education for which history and geography teachers are responsible, the very ones which earned Samuel Paty a death sentence.
A student: “If we go beyond the limits, there will be attacks”
Among the themes to be addressed by teachers with fourth-year classes: freedom of expression. He says: “Naively, last year, for my very first class on this subject, I decided to put my foot in the dish and broach the subject of the Muhammad cartoons. Unfortunately, it didn’t quite turn out the way I imagined.” He had hoped to see the students debate, discuss, exchange, be open to other opinions, “think of freedoms in the plural”. Then he fell from a great height. “Whatever the profile of the students, there was an immediate consensus to say that we cannot touch religions. It hit me. From there, we tell ourselves that there is work to do…”
The teacher then decides to form different small groups which, at the end of this four-hour session, will have to offer an oral presentation on a subject of their choice. One of them chooses the attacks of 2015. “They went there because it marked them, they were very young teenagers at the time of the events. ”
When they come to the board, the teacher does not know the content of the presentation. He simply knows that the discussions were rich and the work rather studious. A student speaks, around the room the silence is complete: “For several years, freedom of expression has been threatened because some journalists lack respect for religions and do not take into account the laws… If we go beyond the limits, there will be attacks.” In the room, everyone nods. In the middle of the room, the professor is annoyed. “We had just completed a large reminder of what the law allowed,” he swears. For them, the law is something abstract. “Their views are not based on texts, but on their personal distinction between good and evil.”
“Faced with a video of French flags being burnt in Pakistan, most of the students applauded.”
Jordi Sutra, teacher of the same subject in a college in Val-de-Marne which he describes as “sensitive”, also gives a particularly terrifying account of these courses where some students go so far as to “defend terrorists”, sometimes even starting in the sixth grade. Since beginning the job, he has used Muhammad cartoons as a medium to illustrate the issue of press freedom. “Over the years, I’ve seen the situation deteriorate,” he says, to the point that he heard students promise him possible “problems” to come if he persisted in brandishing certain drawings. “There are sometimes stimulating debates, but the deconstruction of representations is increasingly difficult to carry out.”
Jean-Baptiste Jorda also makes this observation. A French teacher in a vocational high school in the Seine-Saint-Denis department, he is required to build sequences around information. He is free to choose the object of study of his choice. This year, he offered his second year students to look at satirical newspapers and their editorial freedom. To prevent the sessions from getting out of hand, the teacher chose not to show the cartoons, but rather to describe them in words. Including the famous one from Charlie Hebdo showing Muhammad in tears, annoyed at being “loved by idiots”. “They exploded,” he recalls. “They immediately insulted the newspaper; some even explained that they wanted blasphemy to be prohibited by law … And when I tried to argue with them, they tried to make me say certain things to trick me. I was no longer in control of anything.” To bring them to their senses and start another discussion, Professor Jorda showed a video of French flags being burned in Pakistan in September 2020 in reaction to the republication of the cartoons by the weekly, to show them “where intolerance can lead”. “I thought I would make them think, but most of the students stood up and clapped.” Stupor.
“To them Charlie is the far right”
After this session, the professor wondered for a long time about the usefulness of his approach without really finding any answers. Talking about freedom of expression to confident and sometimes threatening students, is it “a waste of time” in addition to presenting a “danger” to yourself? “After what happened in Conflans-Sainte-Honorine, I didn’t sleep all night,” he explains. “It aroused some concerns.”
Either way, he still can’t explain this closed dialogue. It just identifies a few symptoms. “Their big argument is the alleged double standard they present when comparing incomparable things,” he explains. For example, they do not understand that the criticism of the prophet of Muslims can be authorized when doubting the Holocaust is not… For many, Charlie is the symbol of what they see as a persecution of Muslims and that they call it “Islamophobia”. He explains: “They have a very confused political vision. To them Charlie is the far right. So, to fight against them, all means are legitimate. Insults are like violence. To disagree with them on this issue is to side with the ‘racists'”….
FYI says
Mr Paty apparently will be rewarded the Legion d’Honneur.Good.
The real issue here is about Freedom of expression.And he will be remembered as a Martyr for free speech.
NOBODY deserves to be killed just because they say something you disagree with or draw a picture you don’t like.
NOBODY has any right to commit murder.
The poor man was an innocent human being {and an unarmed civilian too}
If you are a muslim and you applaud such wickedness you are pure evil.
But then your god ‘allah’ missed the Golden Rule ,the 2nd chief commandment of ‘Love thy neighbor'{Lev 19:18} and Genesis 1:27{people made in the spiritual image of God}didn’t he?
allah is evil and so is his ‘prophet’: a mass murderer of Jews{Abu Dawud 4390} and the seller of African Slaves{sahih muslim 3901} and any muslim who cannot see how wrong all this is has no moral compass,no compassion,no sense of humanity or decency.
To rejoice at evil can only come from an evil soul.
He did not deserve to be killed:what a horrific thing for the poor man to be done to him{Bless him} and how disgustingly evil was his savage murderer{rot him}
Jayell says
‘Allah is evil……’
Allah doesn’t exist. ‘Allah’ is the projection evil supremacist minds.
Sam says
Approximately, Muslims are 1.8 billion people, do you know more about their Mohammed? Why do the love him dearly even though he is an evil as you and your ilk describe him?to be.
By the way, my son was one of the 10 individuals recognized as geniuses , top 10 individuals on this planet.
Not one of the top 10%.
Also, I have a question for you Mr smart man… who are the “MEN OF RENOWN ” mentioned in the bible?what happens to them?where are they now?
gravenimage says
The appalling “Sam” wrote:
Approximately, Muslims are 1.8 billion people, do you know more about their Mohammed? Why do the (sic) love him dearly even though he is an (sic) evil as you and your ilk describe him?to be.
……………………….
The nature of Muhammed is clear from the canonical texts of Islam–he was a warlord, a pedophile, a slaver, a rapist, and a mass murderer.
And pious Muslims follow this model to this day, “marrying” children, persecuting non-Muslims, and beheading the critics of Islam, just as their “Prophet” did. That is exactly the basis on which this Jihadist murderer acted. And note all these students cheering his actions–*of course* “Sam” cannot explain this.
More:
By the way, my son was one of the 10 individuals recognized as geniuses , top 10 individuals on this planet.
Not one of the top 10%.
……………………….
Well, this is apropos of nothing. Then, the idea that there are only ten individuals recognized as geniuses is absurd. One presumes he means *greatest* geniuses today.
But, even if “Sam’s” son is a genius–unclear since he comments anonymously here–this says nothing about “Sam” himself and his constant apologia for the barbarism of Islam.
Here are Mojo’s top ten modern geniuses:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F14UmfDvQts&ab_channel=WatchMojo.com
Is “Sam jr.” in the mix here? Probably not… Bill Gates is mentioned pretty frequently on such lists, though, along with Stephen Hawking.
The idea that there is only one official group that is in charge of recognizing such geniuses is of course just silly.
More:
Also, I have a question for you Mr smart man… who are the “MEN OF RENOWN ” mentioned in the bible?what (sic) happens to them?where (sic) are they now?
……………………….
“Sam” has consistently refused to say what he means here. Most likely, though, he is claiming that Jewish prophets are actually all Muslim.
What does any of this have to do with Muslims cheering the beheading of those defending freedom of speech? Nothing at all, of course–“Sam” is just trying to distract knowledgeable Anti-Jihadists from the savagery of Islam. How intelligent is *that*?
Agostino Armo Pellegrini says
“They immediately insulted the newspaper[Charlie Hebdo]; some even explained that they wanted blasphemy to be prohibited by law
and…
Professor Jorda showed a video of French flags being burned… most of the students stood up and clapped.”
I’m thinking this close minded fear among the young is their response to the violence of our times. It’s just too much, and their response is to over sympathize with muslims and their violent religion in the false hope of securing peace and safety. Most people by nature are peace loving when they can be, and will try hard to avoid conflict. There’s less danger in applauding the destruction of their own nation’s flag than defending free speech if it means earning the wrath of jihadists who cut heads. I guess the challenge is getting young people–all people–to see that such appeasement for islam does not bode well for peace and freedom in the long run; and that a society that stifles free speech for a particular religion cannot be fair and equitable to all. Being sensitive about the feelings of others is a good thing. But if we are sensitive toward those who are acting unjust and undeserving of that consideration then it’s an act of appeasement and not one of kindness. And appeasement for religious intolerance backed by murder can only lead to a worsened state of existence for everyone. But try and convince a scared student body that they should risk their lives thinking like that! Not an easy task. It takes courage to stand up for what’s good and right in the world. And that’s something the world surely lacks in the turbulent, head-cutting times in which we live.
Michael Copeland says
In Seine-Saint-Denis most of the pupils are likely to be muslim.
Islam has no tradition of debate or discussion. To the contrary, questions are discouraged by physical blows and are decried as blasphemy.
In the Islamic mindset argument is considered weakness: the winner of an issue is the one who shows the greatest passion.
Agostino Armo Pellegrini says
Everything you said about islam rings true to me, but I would question that Seien-Saint Denis pupils are mostly muslim. That department has the highest number of immigrants, apparently, but they would still be a minority if my source is right. But even if muslims are the majority, then how much more likely would the minority of non-muslims be to clap the burning of their own flag? I have no way of knowing, but I’m betting it’s more than if they were all French. Anyway, not that it’s important, I got this quote from an official looking document called, The Council of Europe Development Bank, a document that is rich with information about their schools in that department,
The Department of Seine-Saint-Denis is one of the smallest in France, but one of the most densely populated and most socially diverse, with about a third of the population of foreign origin.
…and,
The Department is very diverse: 29% of the population is of foreign origin and only 16.5% of those come from the European Union (compared to 9% and 32.3% respectively for metropolitan France in 2013). Almost 44% of children aged 0-17 have at least one parent of foreign origin and 39.9% of custodial parents do not have any educational qualifications (compared to an average of 21.9% for metropolitan France).
Thanks.:)
(Why am I posting in here at four in the morning? I must hate islam more than usual lately, lol)
Michael Copeland says
Thank you. Isn’t diversity wonderful?
Agostino Armo Pellegrini says
Isn’t diversity wonderful
Actually diversity can be a good thing, I think. I prefer to mix it up a bit, different people bring different ideas and perspectives, it makes life more interesting and smart. I don’t want only people that think all alike, sounds boring and a bit lacking. What ruins diversity are people like muslims who eschew diversity and who, frankly speaking, don’t seem up to the mental challenge of living in a diverse society. I’m sure that sounds arrogant the way I put that, but I’ve made no secret of my low opinion of islam and the people who live it. Islam as a culture and religion are very much opposed to the idea of a diverse society that shows mutual respect and tolerance for the religions and freedoms of others. I have no desire to live with millions of people whose aspirations are as deadly as Hitler’s Nazis. And I’m sure there are some in the world that would gasp in horror at what I just said, “how can he be so cruel to say that about the religion of peace?!” Because it’s true. The total sum result of islam–despite all the chatter about those nice “moderate” muslims–is the monumental suffering, terror, and murder it has caused. And I’m sure all those students in France know that too, and it’s reasonable to think the more muslims there are, the more the French will clap when their own flag is burned.
James Lincoln says
Agostino Armo Pellegrini says,
“Actually diversity can be a good thing”
That is true, as long as different ethnic groups put the culture of the host country first.
Different ethnic groups in the United States make up our “melting pot.” Dance, music, cuisine, art, etc., add richness to a society – as long as the different ethnic groups assimilate into the host country’s culture – as far as putting *that* culture first. Learning the language, obeying all laws, etc., of the host culture.
Very very different from multiculturalism with no-go zones – which never works…
gravenimage says
And “passion” to pious Muslims usually means bloody violence.
Sam says
You claim that the jihadis cut the heads of their enemies, so please tell the readers how many heads did the jihadis cut in all of Europe for the past 100 years?
gravenimage says
Is “Sam” here pretending that this Jihadist *didn’t* cut off the head of this poor teacher? What crap. This has been reported on by AgenceFrancePress (AFP), France24, the BBC, CNN, and many other trusted sources. Is “Sam” pretending that they are all lying?
Then, Muslims have only made their way back into the civilized West recently–they were not here in large numbers until recently.
But despite this, Muslims have beheaded a large number of victims–Lee Rigby in England, Palmira Silva in England, there was a Jihad plot to behead PM Theresa May, a priest in France, Theo van Gogh in the Netherlands, a French tourist in Algeria, two Scandinavian women in Morocco–and this is just off the top of my head.
Brando says
And all because of a book,the KORAN, which brings me to the famous Muslim conqueror TAMERLANE(1336-1405),a yes,he was a TURK and led an army of Turks.
1.He was ILLITERATE and Killed 17 MILLION people in his wars:Muslims and Non-Muslims.
2.His Favorite Game was a version of chess that is now called TAMERLANE CHESS ( 3 rows of pieces),some say he invented it.
3.His capital was SAMARKAND.
4.His armies killed 17 million people — 5% of the 14th CENTURY WORLD POPULATION
https://medium.com/history-of-yesterday/tamerlane-388241acc894
THE CURSE OF TAMERLANE
His body was placed in a tomb in Samarkand and supposedly a MALEDICTION was written there:
“”Whoever opens my tomb shall unleash an invader more terrible than I.”
Soviet scientists opened the tomb,and took the body away. And 2 DAYS later the Soviet Union was invaded by Hitler:
the result was 24 MILLION Soviets killed (more than the 17 MILLION killed by Tamerlan)
https://factslegend.org/15-facts-about-tamerlanes-curse/
JUST A COINCIDENCE
Hitler had prepared OPERATION BARBAROSA for months, he would NOT have stopped if they had NOT opened the tomb: 3 MILLION German,Hungarian,Finnish and Romanian soldiers invaded.
MASSACRE OF 100,000 HINDU PRISONERS OF DEHLI
He invaded India,captured Dehli and in his MEMOIRS ( dictated,since he was illiterate) he states it.
HIS MEMOIRS SAY WHY HE INVADED INDIA
https://www.ibiblio.org/britishraj/Jackson5/chapter09.html
“About the year 800 A.H. (1398 A.D.), there arose in my heart the desire
to lead an expedition AGAINST THE INFIDELS
and to become a CHAMPION OF THE FAITH,
for it had reached my ears that the slayer of infidels is a Champion and that, if he is slain, he becomes a martyr.
It was for this reason that I formed my resolution, but I was undetermined in my mind whether I should direct my expedition against the infidels of CHINA or against the infidels and polytheists of INDIA.
In this matter I sought an OMEN from the KORAN, and the verse to which I opened was this: “O Prophet, make WAR upon INFIDELS AND UNBELEIVERS , and treat them with SEVERITY.””
Vladimir says
These Muslim students will not make good citizens of the French Republic, in fact, they will strive to do away with it. What foolishness!
Jayell says
Muslims are ipso facto citizens of the Islamic World Caliphate and subject only to the Laws of Allah as revealed through his messenger Mohammed, – at least, that’s what they seem to be saying incessantly. So our friends across the channel might as well forget ‘Liberty, Equality, Fraternity’ because the Second Revolution is apparently on its way – minus the luxury of ‘Madame La Guillotine’ this time, because this new army of ‘brave soldiers’ don’t seem to have progressed beyond using crude sharp objects to dispense their gruesome ‘justice’ unannounced on the public streets. Welcome to the new France!
Vladimir says
France’s own secular contradictions have doomed it, it should be no surprise to anyone when they started allowing immigrants for Muslim countries in in the first place.
gravenimage says
France: Muslim students cheer burning of French flags in response to Muhammad cartoons
……………
Terrifying but not surprising Muslim response to freedom of speech. Teacher Samuel Paty is clearly not alone.
Beneath the Veil of Consciousness says
How many times must you be warned that the wolves are at your door? If not for you, think of your children and your grandchildren.
Lion heart says
Beneath : as a Canadian Christian guy originally from Iraq, I wanna say that all Muslims living in the West should be kicked out even the peaceful because they are peaceful until further notice .. meaning until they take Islam seriously and put it into practice ! While the violent and terrorists ones among them, they should be EXECUTED and in that way the West will be cleansed of Islam ! but I think that would never happen because people especially other Muslims and the useful idiots of the leftist would call the West islamophobic and racists etc..
mortimer says
“Freedom of expression at school” or freedom of expression ANYWHERE in France?
That is the real question that French have to answer.
Islam is INCOMPATIBLE with freedom of expression.
That’s not something we should accommodate.
Muslims who don’t like freedom of expression should leave the country and go to Berzerkistan.
underbed cat says
France needs a strategy and an army willing to defend freedoms they have been endowed with the right to life in their French country of non islamic citizens.
If they decide to make permanent these closed mosques it would be a start but 1st they have to educate the sympathizers about the doctrine that is deceptive about the intent of this cult passing as a religion, where brutality is sanctioned believing they have ‘holy” right to be intolerant and savage.
I predict they will get a violent response for closing mosques that is a bold move, so they must prepare their citizens to get armed for their protection and expose and educate their French citizens. about this doctrine that will destroy their country, and is incompatible with peace and freedom. The problem is the doctrine is hidden perfectly well by imams, the killer was not radical but carrying out his sharia law..that cannot be tolerated.
Clifford Fodor says
It’s all right for Muslims to burn down the Notre Dame Cathedral. But if you draw a cartoon of Muhammed, you will not only get yourself killed, they will burn your flag as well.
Jayell says
Muslims are Allah’s chosen, to be respected as the best of all people and above criticism. The world rightfully belongs to them and they can dispose of anything and anybody as and when they please.
“Islam, Islam uber alles…..”
Fred van de Bunt says
Teacher in the Netherlands told almost exactly the same some 15 to 20 years ago, as I can remember.
And this week in the context of the killing of mister Paty, on TV it was told by one, that she is very careful what she discusses, since recently she has children herself, for which she has to care too, apart for the children in the class.
To summarize some important news, the leading imam in France told this week, that the killing of mister Paty was no good. But offending holy religious figures creates hate. The leading French imam wants international laws to be created, that penalize offence against holy religious figures. Smart, since France does not bend, so he looks for it higher up. In the mean time, this French Muslim leader signals to the French Muslims, that they also should not bend to French law.
The leading French imam also told that the world possesses many cultures and cannot be ruled by one model. This is true, since the roughly 56 Islam OIC countries have their sharia law human rights for instance. And the model country where Mecca resides, Saudi Arabia, has as the constitution the Quran and the hadith, and sharia laws applies. Apart from that, there are countries in the world were Muslims are governed through (part of) sharia law, and non-Muslim citizens have their own laws. I suppose the imam is carefully suggesting a law mix, one type of law for muslims and one type for the rest, as a model for France.
http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/1/64/388835/Egypt/Politics-/AlAzhar-grand-imam-condemns-French-teacher-beheadi.aspx
Giacomo Latta says
Intercourse your imam.
”The leading French imam wants international laws to be created”
”The leading French imam also told that the world possesses many cultures and cannot be ruled by one model.”
Has your imam ever been charged with logic and consistency of thought?
Lavéritétriomphera says
@Shastra,
“Anti India France” (?)
Cite your authority,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France%E2%80%93India_relations.
Fred van de Bunt says
In the meantime a regional French newspaper, a lot bigger then Charlie Hebdo, with hundreds of journalists at work, received threats, because the paper showed some Charlie Hebdo images in an article:
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-france-security-media/french-paper-la-nouvelle-republique-threatened-after-publishing-mohammad-cartoons-idUKKBN2760QV
Giacomo Latta says
It also received a bunch of non-threats.
Eur says
after the massacre in charlie hebdo in all the schools of france a minute of silence was decreed. That silence was not respected in many schools. After the massacres in Madrid, London, New York … there were celebrations in Moroccan cities (Tetouan) and of course throughout the Middle East. Let’s see if we can learn once and for all that Islam is not just a religion.
Michael Copeland says
Islam is government.
https://gatesofvienna.net/2020/07/islam-is-government/
Jayell says
‘Islam is not just a religion’
Islam isn’t really a religion at all. It’s a pseudo-theocratic totalitarian political ideology apparently fabricated from plagiarised elements of contemporary religions at the time of its inception in order to validate its founder’s spurious status as a ‘Prophet’, which would have been an essential strategy to promote the success of his expansionist political ambitions in the context of a relatively uneducated and superstitious population on the Arabian Peninsula of the time. This would explain (a) the many inconsistencies, contradictions and general lack of coherence in islamic texts, since these were essentially originally compiled for contemporary promotional reasons rather than as a genuine religious philosophy, and (b) the fact that islam cannot be accommodated within a modern Western democratic political system or moral code, since the two are essentially incompatible and mutually exclusive, and (c) the well-documented aggressive aversion to any criticism evident in the islamic community, since, like all expansionist totalitarian ideologies, this would undermine its presumed universal authority by revealing its many ideological inconsistencies and defects, and consequently undermining its clearly-expressed supremacist ambitions.
European pagan says
So many hatred and problems because of a cartoon. The Quran didn’t come from Heaven, it came from Hell.
Michael Copeland says
“…between us and you enmity and hatred forever….”
Koran 60:4, part of Islamic law.
Lavéritétriomphera says
The Muslims must accept that Quran is man-made. All religions are man-made, that is why France is secular: “Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s”.
Eur says
that is precisely the debate that many people want to open. They say that French society must assume that it is now a society with several religious confessions..in fact it is a euphemism to say that the Islamic community must be excluded from the secularism of the state and they must be able to impose their religious laws on the members of their community and the rest of society must not only allow it, but must witness it, finance it and keep quiet until theocracy prevails.they don’t want their society to be secular and today muslims are mot inmigrants, there are millions borned in France.
Lavéritétriomphera says
@Eur,
The right to freedom of conscience and religion exists in France, but religions are ideologies and some of them forbid freedom of thought.
Secularism, freedom of expression, criticism of religions and beliefs are, among others, fundamentals of the Republican Pact (Pacte Républicain) that all French citizens have a duty to respect.
The non observance of the law on applying the principle of secularism, breaks the Republican Pact.
John Allan says
I doubt that they will grow up, so we are unlikely to find out.
OLD GUY says
That picture shows the fact that muslim/islamics are not becoming apart of your countries society. They will destroy France as we knew it and turn it into just another islamic toilet of a country, just like the one they came from.
libertyORdeath says
https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2020/10/21/pics-defying-islamists-giant-image-of-mohammed-projected-onto-french-government-building-after-beheading/
Bravo France!
Sam says
A question for you smarties? :-
In the bible, I think in the book of genesis 5.6 (I’m not sure), there is a reference to a new breed of humans that were (are?) The offspring of God’s children and human females, these offspring were called the MEN OF RENOWN , my question is: what happened to these men of RENOWN, where are they now?
gravenimage says
Genesis 5:6 reads:
“And Seth lived an hundred and five years, and begat Enos”.
Perhaps he actually meant Genesis 6:4:
“The Nephilim were in the earth in those days, and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bore children to them; the same were the mighty men that were of old, the men of renown”.
“Sam” has ranted about this many times–for what reason, he has never made clear.
Either way, this of course has *nothing* to do with Muslims cheering the beheading of this poor teacher. He is hoping to distract us from this Muslim savagery.