Only time will tell if he is sincere, and how much the nation’s Wahhabi clerics will allow him to do. But one statement from this article is flatly false: MBS says “there should be no punishment related to a religious matter except when there is a clear Quranic stipulation, and this penalty will be implemented based on the way that the Prophet applied it.” The article’s author, Kamel Abderrahmani, comments: “In this case, according to this criterion, only 10% of the valid hadiths remain, which are those converging with the Koran. In addition, some Islamic laws would disappear, such as stoning, scourging, amputating the hands of thieves, as well as Islamic criminal laws, such as the death of the apostate and homosexuals.”
That’s not at all true. Stoning is not in the Qur’an, but it is in several mutawater hadiths, including this one:
The Jews came to Allah’s Messenger (ﷺ) and told him that a man and a woman from amongst them had committed illegal sexual intercourse. Allah’s Messenger (ﷺ) said to them, “What do you find in the Torah (old Testament) about the legal punishment of Ar-Rajm (stoning)?” They replied, (But) we announce their crime and lash them.” `Abdullah bin Salam said, “You are telling a lie; Torah contains the order of Rajm.” They brought and opened the Torah and one of them solaced his hand on the Verse of Rajm and read the verses preceding and following it. `Abdullah bin Salam said to him, “Lift your hand.” When he lifted his hand, the Verse of Rajm was written there. They said, “Muhammad has told the truth; the Torah has the Verse of Rajm. The Prophet (ﷺ) then gave the order that both of them should be stoned to death. (`Abdullah bin `Umar said, “I saw the man leaning over the woman to shelter her from the stones.” (Bukhari 4.61.3635)
Amputating the hands of thieves is clearly and explicitly in the Qur’an itself: “As for the thief -male or female – cut off the hands of both. This is a recompense for what they have done, and an exemplary punishment from Allah. Allah is All-Mighty, All-Wise.” (5:38)
Actually, the death penalty for apostasy is arguably based on the Qur’an: “They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah. But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper.” (Qur’an 4:89)
There is also a mutwater hadith that depicts Muhammad saying: “Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him” (Bukhari 9.84.57).
The situation is the same for the death penalty for homosexual activity. Another hadith depicts Muhammad saying: “Whomever you find doing the actions of the people of Lut then kill the one doing it, and the one it is done to.” (Jami` at-Tirmidhi 3.17.1456) This hadith is graded hasan, which means that it is regarded as less strongly attested than hadiths that are graded sahih (reliable), but is still generally accepted as authentic.
So don’t expect Saudi Arabia to give up stoning or killing apostates and homosexuals any time soon.
“Mohammed Bin Salman attempts to reform Islam,” by Kamel Abderrahmani, Asia News, May 8, 2021:
Paris (AsiaNews) – On April 27 Saudi Arabian Crown Prince, Mohammed Bin Salman (Mbs), gave a long television interview to the Saudi channel “Al-Arabiya“[i], dedicated to his economic and social program for a new country in the framework of the 2030 vision, first unveiled in 2015.
In the interview he spoke of moderation in the application of Islamic laws, challenging Wahhabism, an ideology developed by Mohammed ben Abdelwahhab, an 18th century Saudi preacher, who reigned for a long time in the country and elsewhere, after promoting it for many decades in the Muslim world.
It would seem that MBS has come out in favor of the reform of Islam, when he stated: “All Muslim jurists and scholars have been talking about the concept of moderation for over a thousand years. So, I do not think I am in a position to clarify this concept, as much as I can … abide by the Saudi constitution, which is the Quran, the Sunnah, and our basic governance system and to implement it fully in a broad sense that is inclusive of everybody.”…
MBS also declared that “the Constitution of Saudi Arabia is the Koran” and that his country is “obliged to implement the Koran in one form or another”; that is: all citizens will be respected as such and in their differences. To be more explicit, he stressed that only what is only said “unequivocally” in the Koran should be applied: “In social and personal affairs, we are obliged to implement only the stipulations clearly enunciated in the Quran. Thus, I cannot apply a sharia punishment without a clear or explicit Koranic stipulation of the Sunna.”
If this is to take place, says MBS, then Islam needs reform and sources of religious legislation need review. In saying as much, MBS has placed himself alongside Muslim intellectuals such as Mohamed Arkoun, Mohamed Shahrour, Faraj Fouda and others. It must be said that many of these intellectuals have been persecuted, imprisoned, interdicted, or killed because they had defended a contemporary view of Islam, or tried to cure Islam of its illness: Wahhabism, or political Islam.
MBS says the reform is clear: “The government, where Sharia is concerned, has to implement Quran regulations and teachings in mutawater (well-known) hadiths[ii], and to look into the veracity and reliability of ahad hadiths[iii], and to disregard “khabar” hadiths[iv] entirely, unless if a clear benefit is derived from it for humanity. So, there should be no punishment related to a religious matter except when there is a clear Quranic stipulation, and this penalty will be implemented based on the way that the Prophet applied it.”
In this case, according to this criterion, only 10% of the valid hadiths remain, which are those converging with the Koran. In addition, some Islamic laws would disappear, such as stoning, scourging, amputating the hands of thieves, as well as Islamic criminal law laws [sic], such as the death of the apostate and homosexuals.
The announcement of the crown prince establishes a distance, a fundamental break with Wahhabism and constitutes a real change of ideological direction, in the sense that it favors recourse to the direct interpretation of the Koran and the hadith, without worrying about the different schools of thought and the ulama who forged Wahhabi Islamic thought.
The crown prince also added that “to implement a penalty on the pretext that it is a Sharia penalty while there is no stipulation for such a penalty in the Quran or in the mutawater hadith, then this is also a falsification of the Sharia […] When we commit ourselves to follow a certain school or scholar, this means we are deifying human beings. God Almighty did not put a barrier between Himself and people. He revealed the Quran and the Prophet PBUH implemented it and the space for interpretation is open permanently.”
Mbs continues: “If Sheikh Muhammad bin Abdulwahhab were with us today and he found us committed blindly to his texts and closing our minds to interpretation and jurisprudence while deifying and sanctifying him he would be the first to object to this. There are no fixed schools of thought and there is no infallible person. We should engage in continuous interpretation of Quranic texts and the same goes for the sunnah of the Prophet PBUH, and all fatwas should be based on the time, place, and mindset in which they are issued. For example, 100 years ago, when a scholar would issue a certain fatwah not knowing that the Earth was round and not knowing about continents or technology, etc. that fatwah would have been based on the then-available inputs and information and their understanding of the Quran and Sunnah, but these things change over time and are different right now.”…
In any case, it is curious to note that on the part of the leaders of Wahhabism there has been no reaction, if not some expression of support published in recent days[v]….
[i] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eriiLN1XIa0
[ii] The hadiths are linked to a large number of transmitters, so it is impossible for them to have agreed on the falsehood, at each link in the chain of transmission, from start to finish.
[iii]It is said of a hadith that it is transmitted by an important number of people, but their number does not reach that of the well-known hadith.
[iv] It is different. Hadith is what comes from the Prophet, but information [al-khabar] is what comes from another.
[v] [5] https://arabic-cnn-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/arabic.cnn.com/amphtml/middle-east/article/2021/04/29/saudi-mbs-council-senior -scholars? amp_js_v = a6 & amp_gsa = 1 & usqp = mq331AQHKAFQArABIA% 3D% 3D # aoh = 16203252485819 & referrer = https% 3A% 2F% 2Fwww.google.com & amp_tf = Source% C2% A0% 3A% 20% 251% 24s % 2Farabic.cnn.com% 2Fmiddle-east% 2Farticle% 2F2021% 2F04% 2F29% 2Fsaudi-mbs-council-senior-scholars
Frank Scarn says
Now of course this in ridiculous. If the Qur’an is perfect – having been handed down from Muzzie Heaven in its exact format – then it need not be reformed. By logic, the perfect can’t be reformed.
Yeah, yeah, I know. Logic and Islam are worlds apart
mortimer says
It seems that the Crown Prince is lessening Sharia punishments by adopting the less strict punishments in the Koran. Much of Sharia law is based on the hadiths, rather than the Koran.
gravenimage says
Saudi Crown Prince: ‘Constitution of Saudi Arabia is the Koran,’ but pledges some reforms
…………….
This is a contradiction.
Infidel says
Maybe he believes in a Quran-only islam, devoid of any contradictory hadiths?
gravenimage says
Infidel, the Qur’an itself is barbaric.
Infidel says
Fully agree! Speaking of which, wonder what happened to Tom Haidon, the NZ muslim here from years ago who thought that he could help reform islam by writing new tafseers?
tim gallagher says
Yeah, that sounds like a sensible way to run a country in 2021. Just follow the book that lays out the way to live life as it was lived in 7th century Arabia. Seriously, what a bunch of fuckwits. As Frank mentions up above, the Koran and islam are “perfect”, blah, blah, so all these Muslims have to keep living the life of people who lived in 7th century Arabia. They need to wake up to the whole load of garbage that Islam is and ditch islam and join the more evolved, more advanced non-Muslim parts of the human race. I guess it’ll never happen, so they’ll always keep living like 7th century primitives in all areas of human life. It is what they deserve if they don’t leave Islam behind. We should not let Muslims bring this barbaric islamic way of life to any of our countries, where we live a more modern and far better style of life. I have no idea why so many people in our countries seem to think that Muslims, followers of the crap in the Koran, belong in our countries. They don’t. The 7th century Arabian way of life doesn’t belong in our modern world.
Infidel says
I have an open mind on him. A lot of what he has initiated has been stuff that he was under no pressure to do, such as revising schoolbooks to teach about other cultures, so like RS, I’ll continue my wait and watch approach to him. But 2 reasons I think he may succeed – he has both power and time on his side. He has power that no previous crown prince or king had, which is how he’s been as bold as to start such reforms. And he ain’t too old – if he can hold on to power, he might rule for decades, which is enough time for him to erode the Wahabi influence on his country.
Yeah, like Turkey, we may be witnessing Saudi Arabia’s Kemal Ataturk in action, and whether that gets reversed by a future successor of his would depend on how successful he is
James Lincoln says
Infidel,
I sure hope you’re right about Mohammed Bin Salman, but I’m skeptical;
After all, he’s still a muslim…
Wellington says
I’m skeptical too, James. Highly so. Reforming Islam is like reforming Nazism.
Wellington says
Infidel: Kemal Ataturk hated Islam. Does MBS hate Islam? I don’t think so.
This is PR garbage going on or some kind of wishful thinking or both. MBS is no Ataturk.
gravenimage says
+1
tim gallagher says
Off this topic, I wanted to mention something that a presenter on a radio station, 2GB, here in Sydney, Australia, mentioned this morning relating to the retired French military leaders saying that France is facing civil war because of what the Muslims have brought to the country. I didn’t catch all of what was said, but the presenter, Michael Mclaren, an excellent presenter, did say that 58% of the serving members of the French military agree that the country is facing civil war. Basically, it sounded as if they are backing up what the retired military leaders had said a little while back. I’m not sure I got this information right, but I found it interesting. It was good that Michael Mclaren did mention this because I’m sure almost all media out here would not mention such news. France has let far too many Muslims into the country and now they are facing the inevitable consequences. I thought Jihad Watch might be interested in this news. I hope I got the information right. I was busy doing other things when it came up on the radio.
GreekEmpress says
I’ve only heard news on this subject on anti-jihad sites.
I just saw a video from Paul Joseph Watson on this topic.
tim gallagher says
GreekEmpress, I guess that the radio presenter, Michael Mclaren, read the report somewhere and I was glad to hear him mention it. I think it would be ignored by many presenters. He is the type of person who would keep an eye on such things and would mention it. France seems to be in big trouble because they have let so many Muslims in. I hope that they are waking up. Mind you, I suppose that, if I heard it right, 58% of French troops isn’t all that high. I think that it sounded as if the troops were keen to back up those retired French military leaders who, I think, the government was planning to punish in some way for speaking up about the Muslim problem. I always like to hear about people waking up to Islam’s nature instead of remaining foolishly unaware.
Daniel Triplett says
The sooner the better.
Kinetic force, at this point, is the only action that will win the French front in the global Islamic War. They’re in too deep to use non-violent legislative mechanisms. They’re woke virtue-signaling is catching up to them quickly.
France has the highest Muslim population of any European state, at minimum 8.8%.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/muslim-population-by-country
They’re rapidly transitioning from Stage 3 into 4 (of 5) Jihad:
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2011/05/the_five_stages_of_islam.html
The longer they wait, the more desperate and violent the solution will be. They best get it over with sooner rather than later.
The good news is that if this happens in France, it will likely ignite the necessary fire under every Western Kafir that needs to be lit. A splash of cold water in the face to wake everyone up to the reality of this 1400-year zero-sum global war.
Per Islamic law, co-existing isn’t an option. Only winning or losing. Right now we are losing, badly.
Daniel Triplett says
To be clear, I meant France has the highest Muslim population of any “Western” European state.
Some Eastern European and South-Eastern European states are worse.
mortimer says
Russia has 14 million Muslims. Most live in Europe.
Daniel Triplett says
To be clear, I meant France has the highest Muslim population of any “Western” European state.
Some Eastern European and South-Eastern European states are worse.
tim gallagher says
I agree with what you say, Daniel. France, with such a large Muslim population, is in big trouble and maybe they are waking up to that fact. My policy on Islam and Muslims is to shut the door on having any Muslims migrate into non-Muslim countries because it would avoid all this inevitable and foreseeable trouble they always bring. Why invite this trouble into our countries? I think all our countries should have woken to Islam by now. There is enough evidence to know that islam is incompatible and brings nothing but trouble to our non-Muslim countries. I hope France gets really tough and gives an example to the rest of the world. It is going to have to happen one day, there’s no doubt about that. As you say, we are losing badly against the enemy, Islam.
saturnine says
When asked what historic event occurred in the Middle East in November 1979, most people will say the takeover of the U.S. embassy in Iran. Far fewer know the Grand Mosque Seizure happened then too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Mosque_seizure
On November 20, hundreds of members of a fanatical Sunni movement took over the Forbidden mosque in Mecca. They sought to compel Saudi Arabia to return to traditional Islamic values, including strict sharia adherence and elimination of Western influences. It took weeks for Saudi authorities to retake the mosque.
The movement could have be declared a heretical cult and ignored. Instead, the takeover shocked and terrified the Saudis into adopting many of the reforms the movement advocated.
If MBS marginalizes Islam too much, we may see history repeat.
ROBERT CARRILLO says
So, it is not a RELIGION at all.. It is a POLITICAL PARTY AND A GLOBAL POLITICAL STEAM ROLLAR..
Hmmm..
ROBERT CARRILLO says
Finally, they admit the truth..
ROBERT CARRILLO says
PS.. Finally, they admit the truth..
ROBERT CARRILLO says
PS.. Finally, they admit the truth..
Beneath the Veil of Consciousness says
The Butcher of Khashoggi, AKA- The Crown Prince, can see the end is near for oil as the supreme energy source. He is employing weak half-measures in an attempt to move Saudi Arabia out of the 7th century without stirring up a hornet’s nest of backlash by his imams. What a pickle for the butcher. BTW- Was Khashoggi butchered in accordance with halal precepts?
seelistenunderstandAmir says
The Saudi said: “Constitution of Saudi Arabia is the Koran,’ but pledges some reforms”.
Some reforms?
No sir
The entire of the Quran must be changed in order to make it a peace book instead of what is now-a war book.