Saudi Arabia hasn’t recognized Israel, but as the Jews are the worst enemies of the Muslims according to the Qur’an (5:82), everything has to be their fault.
In any case, the prohibition on women going out without a male guardian is not “extremism.” It’s basic, mainstream Sharia: “The husband may forbid his wife to leave the home…because of the hadith related by Bayhaqi that the Prophet…said, ‘It is not permissible for a woman who believes in Allah and the Last Day to allow someone into her husband’s house if he is opposed, or to go out of it if he is averse” (Reliance of the Traveller m10.4).
As such, this easing of the rules is likely to meet with significant opposition from many Saudis, as well as among Pakistanis.
“‘Decline is on’: Pakistanis furious after Saudi Arabia eases ‘guardianship rules’ for women,” OpIndia, June 12, 2021 (thanks to The Religion of Peace):
In a historic decision, the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia has allowed single, widowed, and divorced women to stay independently without the prior approval of their father or male guardian.
As per reports, ‘adult and rationale’ women can now stay in a separate accommodation without seeking permission of the father or other male guardians. The judicial authorities in the Gulf nation have removed Paragraph B of Article 169 of the “Law of Procedure before Sharia Courts.” A new text has instead been inserted, which states, “An adult woman has the right to choose where to live. A woman’s guardian can report her only if he has evidence proving she committed a crime.”
It must be mentioned that the Courts earlier would prioritise cases filed under the ‘absenteeism law’ by parents against daughters for living independently without prior permission. However, courts will no longer entertain such cases. The historic decision comes at the backdrop of a 2017 lawsuit fought by 32-year-old writer Mariam Al Otaibi. She fought her case for 3 years after her parents filed a report for living and travelling alone without their permission.
She won the case in July last year and the court ordered that she has the right to choose where she wanted to live. Otaibi had fled her home in Ar Rass and moved to Riyadh following the abusive behaviour of her father and brothers.
Pakistanis miffed by the decision of Saudi Arabia
While the Saudi Arabia women were elated, Pakistani men were irked by the decision. One Muhammad Umair Shahab wrote, “Following the West will bring KSA a very shameful end as the US faced in Afghanistan. What I predict is that the Hijaz (Makkah and Madina) will get into Turkish hand back again IA. They are somehow more in defending Islam and its propagation.”Another Pakistani, Faseeh Khan remarked, “The destruction of KSA made its debut in the debauch and libertarianism. I wish they’d be ashamed of themselves.” One Da Khan Zwey said, “The decline commences now in there. Let’s wait for the consequences.”
One Muhammad Saad wrote, “Their decline is on…Everyone should have his/her personality and way of perception so, the presence remains… Now they are following the tradition and culture of the West and they will lose their existence. Because following others may kill your own choice of an idea. One should lead others, not by others.”…
“Decline is imminent,” wrote one Shakaib Haider.
One Sumbal Tausif Qureshi remarked, “This is what follows when you recognise Israel.” Another Pakistani alleged, “Saudi is on the way to be in the good books of the West and America. But it must remember that their friendship is not disposable.”
BlackSabbath says
One Muhammad Saad wrote, “…following others may kill your own choice of an idea. One should lead others, not by others.”…
Ironic, that this is coming from a pakistani, who is 99% a former Hindu. The only part I can agree to is that decline is on. The decline of islam itself.
mortimer says
Pakistan is the second largest Muslim population after Indonesia.
Infidel says
All Pakistanis ain’t former Hindus. A good number of them are descendants from the Turkic conquerors who came thru the Khybar Pass into Panjab and on towards Lahore and Agra. Also, Pashtuns are the second largest ethnic group in that country after Panjabis, and they’re descendant from the Afghans, who were either Buddhists or Zoroastrians in pre-islamic times. Also, in Sind and Balochistan, a good number of them are descended from the Arab conquerors
BlackSabbath says
That means, some pakis are Greeks. Makes sense.
gravenimage says
?
BlackSabbath says
gravenimage, I was implying indirectly to an article on Jihad Watch where Turks were going crazy after finding out their ancestors were Greeks. So, in this case, some pakis, if they are former turks, then they are potentially former Greeks.
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2021/06/turks-enraged-as-ancestry-com-reveals-the-truth-most-of-them-are-greeks
gravenimage says
I get it now, BlackSabbath. 🙂
Infidel says
Well, the Kalash people in NW Pakistan – near the Afghan border – are descendants of Alexander’s Macedonian troops. They follow an unadulterated Vedic Hinduism, unlike the sects followed in India. They also populated the Kafiristan province of Afghanistan, and were islamized in the 19th century. Today, in Pakistan, they’ve slowly been losing followers to islam, but they’re fiercely attached to that land and won’t move. Although w/ just a few thousand people, it’s questionable how long they’d remain separate
gravenimage says
Greek culture was an influence in Pakistan and Afghanistan once upon a time–but few Pakistanis are actually descended from Greeks or Macedonians.
SAFI says
@BlackSabbath I think Infidel was referring to those tent-dwelling OG Turks from Central Asia not the Anatolian LARPers most people are familiar with. The Ottomans(the ancestors of our west-of-the-Caspian “Turks”) never made it that far east as they weren’t able to subdue Safavid Persia…
Infidel says
SAFI is right. Turks originated from Turkistan, which today is Turkmenistan+Uzbekistan+Kyrgyzstan+Kazakhstan+Xinjiang (or at least the southern part of it – Qashqar, Hotan and Yarqent). The Ottomans were breakaways from the Seljuqs, who started from Merw (in Turkistan) and overran pre-Safavid Iran, and then Anatolia. Whereas the Ghaznavids started off in Ghazni (in Afghanistan), the Ghorids in Ghor (again Afghanistan) and the Timurids and Mughals from Samarqand and Kabul (again, Turkistan and Afghanistan) Essentially, Turkistan is where all these Turkic conquerors started out
SAFI says
Infidel I think I first heard the names of these islamic dynasties about 9 or so years ago while reading on the history of the broader Middle East and Western/Northern India… I remember being quite surprised upon finding out later that they all had turkic origins. I find it kind of interesting how they left the Ghorids and few others off the “16 Turkish Empires” list while still incuding the Hephthalites and some others who probably were not turkic or may not even have been real “states” in it.
Infidel says
SAFI, another thing that surprised me is that 2 of the 16 empires – the Ilkhanate empire in Iran and the Golden Horde that stretched from the Kazakh Steppes to the Volga – were actually Mongol, not Turk, and started out as non-muslim empires: something the Turks can’t possibly be proud of. The Ghorids – I’ve seen it being described as a Tajik empire i.e. having Iranian rather than Turkic underpinnings, although that doesn’t explain how a general of the Ghorid ruler started a Turkic dynasty in North India
In fact, in North India, every muslim dynasty from the 1200s to the 1800s – w/ the exception of 2 which were Pashtun – were Turkic dynasties. The first set of them until 1400 were there from the Ghorid invasion. The Sayyid dynasty followed Tamerlane’s invasion – Khizr Khan was a general of Timur who started that dynasty, which was later ousted by the Pashtun Lodis. And then there was the Mughals, who along w/ the Timurides, are listed by Erdogan in that list of 16
Considering that Pakistan considers itself an inheritor of Mughal heritage, Erdogan should simply invite Imran Khan to join his Turkic council, even if Pakistan is technically not a Turkic majority country
SAFI says
I’m sure Imran Khan would fall all over himself to please his brother Tayyip but what would the benefit to Turkey even be at this point? I mean they could hardly get any closer than they already are. Pakistan is already behaving almost like a turkish satellite while also buying up everything Turkey has to sell them from ships and drones to jihad themed television dramas. Last year they were even discussing about granting all of each others citizens dual Turkish-Pakistani citizenship… not sure where these discussions are at the moment, maybe Erdogan realized Pakistan was gonna be sending him 40 million citizen-migrants in the next couple of years and came to his senses…
I AM THE INFIDEL YOUR IMAM WARNED YOU ABOUT says
Pashtuns are not descendants from Afghans or Buddhists or Zoroastrians. If you look back in history, Pathans, or Pashtuns, are the only people in the world whose probable descent from the lost tribes of Israel finds mention in a number of texts from the 10th century to the present day, written by Jewish, Christian and Muslim scholars alike, both religious as well as secularists.
The Pashtuns have dwelt in the rugged mountains of Afghanistan and Pakistan for thousands of years. Although Muslim today, they live by a code called Pashtunwali which greatly resembles Mosaic law. When Pashtunwali conflicts with the Koran, they follow Pashtunwali. For example, Muslims are permitted to eat camel, but many Pashtuns do not do so. Other Pashtun customs which are not common among Muslims but have a clear parallel in Jewish practice include circumcision on the eighth day, lighting candles on Friday evening, levirate marriage, and many others.
Names of greater Pashtun tribes include the Rubeni, Gadi, Ashuri, Efridi, Shinwari, Lewani and Yousefzai, which clearly resemble the tribes of Reuven, Gad, Asher, Ephraim, Shimon and Yosef. The royal family of Afghanistan traces its origins to the line of King Saul of the tribe of Benjamin.
I spent 8 years in Afghanistan and I’ve see with my own eyes the lighting of candles on Friday evenings and Pashtun men exiting the mosques after prayer wearing a shawl over their shoulders similar to what the Jewish people wear.
gravenimage says
I AM THE INFIDEL YOUR IMAM WARNED YOU ABOUT, the idea that things like revenge and obsessive focus on the “honor” of women, including murdering them for it–key aspects of Pashtunwali–somehow derive from Jewish law I’m afraid makes no sense.
Much of this barbarism was pre-Islamic, but it dovetailed perfectly with the savagery of Islam.
Superficial similarities in candlelighting is hardly proof. This theory was popular in the late 19th century.
DNA testing has shown that Pashtuns have genetic profiles similar to other central Asian peoples.
serialthinker2003 says
i am from Saudi Arabia ??
and every second i breath i feel heavy, living here is a challenge, isn’t a fact
everything is gloomy, and sad, people here don’t live the moment, they live to die, an obedient ruthless life to Allah, am 17yo, and i have to say i don’t have any friends. people here are gelatinous organisms, my dream is to be free from this restrictive, I want to learn music, go play, but I am basically unhealthy really, mental, i just hope if people were like funny and lovely…
i feel wasted, horrible life ..
ElderlyZionist says
Good luck. There are many problems in the west, but we value our individual freedoms. Do not be crushed. I hope you find a way.
Hoi Polloi says
I hope this one freedom will bring you more rights as a human and child of Almighty God.
Infidel says
Wish you luck!
Giacomo Latta says
If you are male then unfortunately you have to consider yourself lucky. At the moment KSA sends its young males worldwide to rape and sexually assault anything that crosses their path. You probably have the chance to travel and prove yourself a sentient human being by not following the government programme.
Infidel says
It’s actually other countries that do – Turkey, Morocco, Tunisia, Libya… KSA sends their young males to our military bases for training, where they can also get an opportunity to shoot at our own military staff. Although I believe that since that Pensacola attack, this training is probably being done remotely, if at all
tim gallagher says
I join the other commenters in wishing you well. I hope that you can find some way to improve your life although it does sound very difficult in that horrible country.
gravenimage says
I hope you get free, serialthinker.
BlackSabbath says
Hang in there. You have friends all over the world, who wish you well.
gravenimage says
serialthinker, where do you want to go? I know you have said that you hate America and love Communist China.
mortimer says
Women’s rights will gradually cause Islam to decrease in the life of Saudis.
The Pakistani fanatics are whistling past the graveyard and revealing their backwardness, bigotry and lack of concern for the human rights of women and minorities.
gravenimage says
I hope so, Mortimer. But Saudi Arabia has one of the most oppressive societies to women–they’d have a damned long way to go.
Infidel says
Well, ever since they yanked the $2 billion loan that they had given Pakistan, those 2 countries have already burnt bridges. Now, the only thing Saudi Arabia has is the expat card – threaten to expel all Paki expats back home. And unlike western countries, they’d have no qualms doing it
Really speaking, Saudi Arabia should demand to know of Pakistan what business is it of the latter on how much freedom their women are given
tim gallagher says
Islam is such a load of primitive and outdated crap. People getting around living the way people used to live in 7th century Arabia, like the primitive bullshit imposed on women, is sickening in 2021. islam, this grotesque, inhuman relic from the past, has to die out. That should have happened ages ago. How pathetic and embarrassing for people to go along with this primitive, totally uncivilised garbage in the way that Muslims do. This change in Saudi Arabia is a slight improvement I guess, but, seriously, what a primitive mindset Muslims have with their attitude towards women, along with all their other backward garbage. Muslims need to make a lot of progress and join the civilised world.
Steve. says
“and it’s propagation”. I never missed that.
gravenimage says
Pakistanis enraged as Saudi Arabia eases female guardianship rules: ‘This is what follows when you recognise Israel’
…………….
You become more civilized when you recognize Israel? Sounds good to me!
James Lincoln says
Yes, gravenimage.
The only two groups that I can think of who want to “control” women are:
1. Devout muslims.
2. Insecure, mentally unstable men.
gravenimage says
So true, James.
SAFI says
It seems Paki men are determined to fight against the freedom of women not just in their own $h!thole Pakistan but everywhere on Earth…
Infidel says
Yeah! One would think that they have enough problems back home, but one would think wrong!
OLD GUY says
Muhammad believed and taught that MEN should always rule over women and control their lives. The only reason for women is to breed and for sexual pleasure, other than that they are strictly house maids and worthless.
If you believe in FREEDOM, EQUALITY and WOMENS RIGHTS how can you support open borders and the crimes against women and young girls that muslim/islamic countries and religion promote.
6woods says
Women under islam aren’t for sexual pleasure. That honor falls to pearly boys.