Find out why that argument doesn’t hold up to scrutiny in the new revised and expanded version of Did Muhammad Exist?.
Comments
Jimsays
This may seem cynical, but a lot of people like raping and killing and would like to get revenge on everyone whom they suspect of being better off and different and not endorsing the one true religion. The problem with our Christian and Jewish religions is the concept of tolerance and respecting the other people Because, if they are just as good but different, then we cannot be better than they. The solution is to be intolerant and vengeful and try to get ahead. The best members of such a religion are people who do not take it seriously, like people who only go to church for weddings and only pay lip service to what the scriptures say, but mainly just try to get along, live and let live. And who can object to that. But the people who like burning, raping and looting need a religion, which could be Marxism or a religion of peace.
tim gallaghersays
I don’t think Muhammad existed. He was made up later. But I think that the reason that the scum who made him up did make up such a vile murdering, raping, evil creature was because the degenerate barbaric people who made him up thought that that type of evil behaviour was perfectly OK and was the way to live life. For any civilised person, Muhammad is an appalling notion of what a perfect man, the Muslims’ ideal man, and god’s chosen one is, but, if you are an evil and totally barbaric type of person, then Muhammad’s disgusting behaviour is seen as fine and dandy. Having such an evil type of creature as the ideal person to try to emulate is what makes islam such an evil creed. I don’t believe that Muhammad actually existed and Islam is, therefore, nothing but lies from its beginnings until now..
gravenimagesays
Quite likely, Tim.
tim gallaghersays
Yes, gravenimage, that’s how I see it anyway. What evil people you have to be to see murder and rape, as you mention in your comment just below this, as good behaviours. But, I suppose warlords and vicious bandit scum do see the world that way. Islam is one very sick ideology which views the world in a very evil way. It would be great if a lot of Muslims would realise that their creed is completely built on lies and leave it behind, but I suspect that not many will do this.
gravenimagesays
Grimly so, Tim. Not everyone shares our civilized values–Islam certainly does not.
gravenimagesays
‘Muhammad must have existed, because why would anyone invent all those stories of him raping and killing?’
………….
This assumes that raping and killing are regarded as bad things in Islam–but they are not. If aimed against Infidels or “bad” Muslims, the are in fact *sacralized*.
So whether Muhammad was a historical figure and embraced as the “perfect man”, or was cobbled together on the model of several warlords, or was made up out of whole cloth, it is because the majority of Muslims accepted and still accept these acts as *good*.
It is not as though he was a revered public figure and these were regarded as flaws–as, say, with Churchill’s drinking or his sometimes politically incorrect comments. Instead, Muhammad is *lauded* for rape and murder.
Terry Gainsays
GI
And people like you, despite your knowledge, accept this evil ideology as a religion, with all the rights and protections that that entails.
James Lincolnsays
Terry Gain,
What would be the legal remedy to strip islam, and its followers, of religious protections?
The IRS, rightfully or wrongfully, believes that islam is a religion.
Terry, the spiritual aspects of Islam are protected. People have the right to believe whatever they wish to believe. It’s only when they act upon those beliefs that the law comes into play. Raping, enslaving and killing people may be part of a religion but as long as the followers of the religion don’t act upon those beliefs they break no laws.
Why you think Islam is not a religion is beyond me. We have discussed it all before and I still remain unconvinced by your argument.
gravenimagesays
Terry, I have said that I don’t think that pretending that Islam is not a religion–which it is by all definitions–actually helps in any way. As I have pointed out scores of times now, a religion does not have to benignant, any more than every ideology has to be.
I’m looking forward to purchasing this, and other titles by you Mr. Spencer. I’ve been meaning to buy them for a while now, and I think this gives me a good excuse.
Thanks for your hard work, “Did Muhammad Exist?” is a brilliant work.
Don McKellarsays
Haha! Love the classic webboard shitpost meme.
Terry Gainsays
Two questions. If Arabs invented Mohammed in order to buttress their conquests, why would they choose such an objectively evil man? The better question is why has the rest of the world accepted this objectively evil man as a legitimate prophet of God?
CogitoErgoSumsays
Terry, the early followers of Islam defined “evil” differently than you do. Most of today’s world accepts calling Muhammad a prophet of God because their definition of “evil” is different yet again – even from that of the Muslims. Learning the definition of “good” and “evil” and the difference between the two is the greatest struggle each of us faces in this world. It’s like reaching to grab a fruit from the high branch of a tree and then plucking it and peeling the skin away, then eating it and digesting it very slowly before it finally opens your eyes – and your mind.
gravenimagesays
Terry, pious Muslims do not consider the actions of Muhammed–historical or attributed–to be evil.
Frederick Middletonsays
The logical conclusion is that the psychopathic behaviour of Moh’d was put in the Koran as a model for mankind to follow!
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Jim says
This may seem cynical, but a lot of people like raping and killing and would like to get revenge on everyone whom they suspect of being better off and different and not endorsing the one true religion. The problem with our Christian and Jewish religions is the concept of tolerance and respecting the other people Because, if they are just as good but different, then we cannot be better than they. The solution is to be intolerant and vengeful and try to get ahead. The best members of such a religion are people who do not take it seriously, like people who only go to church for weddings and only pay lip service to what the scriptures say, but mainly just try to get along, live and let live. And who can object to that. But the people who like burning, raping and looting need a religion, which could be Marxism or a religion of peace.
tim gallagher says
I don’t think Muhammad existed. He was made up later. But I think that the reason that the scum who made him up did make up such a vile murdering, raping, evil creature was because the degenerate barbaric people who made him up thought that that type of evil behaviour was perfectly OK and was the way to live life. For any civilised person, Muhammad is an appalling notion of what a perfect man, the Muslims’ ideal man, and god’s chosen one is, but, if you are an evil and totally barbaric type of person, then Muhammad’s disgusting behaviour is seen as fine and dandy. Having such an evil type of creature as the ideal person to try to emulate is what makes islam such an evil creed. I don’t believe that Muhammad actually existed and Islam is, therefore, nothing but lies from its beginnings until now..
gravenimage says
Quite likely, Tim.
tim gallagher says
Yes, gravenimage, that’s how I see it anyway. What evil people you have to be to see murder and rape, as you mention in your comment just below this, as good behaviours. But, I suppose warlords and vicious bandit scum do see the world that way. Islam is one very sick ideology which views the world in a very evil way. It would be great if a lot of Muslims would realise that their creed is completely built on lies and leave it behind, but I suspect that not many will do this.
gravenimage says
Grimly so, Tim. Not everyone shares our civilized values–Islam certainly does not.
gravenimage says
‘Muhammad must have existed, because why would anyone invent all those stories of him raping and killing?’
………….
This assumes that raping and killing are regarded as bad things in Islam–but they are not. If aimed against Infidels or “bad” Muslims, the are in fact *sacralized*.
So whether Muhammad was a historical figure and embraced as the “perfect man”, or was cobbled together on the model of several warlords, or was made up out of whole cloth, it is because the majority of Muslims accepted and still accept these acts as *good*.
It is not as though he was a revered public figure and these were regarded as flaws–as, say, with Churchill’s drinking or his sometimes politically incorrect comments. Instead, Muhammad is *lauded* for rape and murder.
Terry Gain says
GI
And people like you, despite your knowledge, accept this evil ideology as a religion, with all the rights and protections that that entails.
James Lincoln says
Terry Gain,
What would be the legal remedy to strip islam, and its followers, of religious protections?
The IRS, rightfully or wrongfully, believes that islam is a religion.
Mosques enjoy section 501(c)(3) status…
https://ttlc.intuit.com/community/credits-and-deductions/help/what-is-a-qualified-charitable-organization/00/26938
CogitoErgoSum says
Terry, the spiritual aspects of Islam are protected. People have the right to believe whatever they wish to believe. It’s only when they act upon those beliefs that the law comes into play. Raping, enslaving and killing people may be part of a religion but as long as the followers of the religion don’t act upon those beliefs they break no laws.
Why you think Islam is not a religion is beyond me. We have discussed it all before and I still remain unconvinced by your argument.
gravenimage says
Terry, I have said that I don’t think that pretending that Islam is not a religion–which it is by all definitions–actually helps in any way. As I have pointed out scores of times now, a religion does not have to benignant, any more than every ideology has to be.
mike says
rule thru fear
Dharma Defender says
I’m looking forward to purchasing this, and other titles by you Mr. Spencer. I’ve been meaning to buy them for a while now, and I think this gives me a good excuse.
Thanks for your hard work, “Did Muhammad Exist?” is a brilliant work.
Don McKellar says
Haha! Love the classic webboard shitpost meme.
Terry Gain says
Two questions. If Arabs invented Mohammed in order to buttress their conquests, why would they choose such an objectively evil man? The better question is why has the rest of the world accepted this objectively evil man as a legitimate prophet of God?
CogitoErgoSum says
Terry, the early followers of Islam defined “evil” differently than you do. Most of today’s world accepts calling Muhammad a prophet of God because their definition of “evil” is different yet again – even from that of the Muslims. Learning the definition of “good” and “evil” and the difference between the two is the greatest struggle each of us faces in this world. It’s like reaching to grab a fruit from the high branch of a tree and then plucking it and peeling the skin away, then eating it and digesting it very slowly before it finally opens your eyes – and your mind.
gravenimage says
Terry, pious Muslims do not consider the actions of Muhammed–historical or attributed–to be evil.
Frederick Middleton says
The logical conclusion is that the psychopathic behaviour of Moh’d was put in the Koran as a model for mankind to follow!