As I noted yesterday, people who disagree with the historical investigations discussed in Did Muhammad Exist? have not infrequently sent me this 2008 article by Patricia Crone (who died in 2015), who was one of the pioneering scholars of historical revisionism regarding the standard account of Muhammad’s life, and yet in this article seems to retreat from her previous views and accept the canonical Islamic depiction of Muhammad and Islam’s origins. Here is more of my response to the article.
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“What do we actually know about Mohammed?,” by Patricia Crone, Open Democracy, June 10, 2008:
…On the Islamic side, sources dating from the mid-8th century onwards preserve a document drawn up between Mohammed and the inhabitants of Yathrib, which there are good reasons to accept as broadly authentic; Mohammed is also mentioned by name, and identified as a messenger of God, four times in the Qur’an (on which more below).
True, on Arabic coins and inscriptions, and in papyri and other documentary evidence in the language, Mohammed only appears in the 680s, some fifty years after his death (whatever its exact date). This is the ground on which some, notably Yehuda D Nevo and Judith Koren, have questioned his existence. But few would accept the implied premise that history has to be reconstructed on the sole basis of documentary evidence (i.e. information which has not been handed down from one generation to the next, but rather been inscribed on stone or metal or dug up from the ground and thus preserved in its original form). The evidence that a prophet was active among the Arabs in the early decades of the 7th century, on the eve of the Arab conquest of the middle east, must be said to be exceptionally good….
The mid-8th century document already dates from 125 years or more after the traditional date for Muhammad’s death. That is a gap large enough for all manner of legendary elaboration. Nor does the document give any of the voluminous biographical details about Muhammad that begin to appear in the ninth century, 200 years after the traditional date of his death. Also, Crone somewhat overstates her case here, as there is actually no trace of the document before the ninth century.
The name “Muhammad” does indeed appear four times in the Qur’an. This is actually a case against, rather than for, Muhammad’s historicity, for Moses is mentioned by name 136 times, and Abraham seventy-nine times. Even Pharaoh is mentioned seventy-four times. Meanwhile, “messenger of Allah” (rasul Allah) appears in various forms 300 times, and “prophet” (nabi) forty-three times. Are those all references to Muhammad, the seventh-century prophet of Arabia? Perhaps. But perhaps not. Certainly they have been taken as such by readers of the Qur’an through the ages. But even if they are, they tell us little to nothing about the events and circumstances of his life.
“The evidence that a prophet was active among the Arabs in the early decades of the 7th century, on the eve of the Arab conquest of the middle east, must be said to be exceptionally good.”
Yes. But was that prophet Muhammad, the prophet of Islam, as depicted in the hadith and sira literature? There are extremely good reasons for questioning that. Find out more in Did Muhammad Exist?.
gravenimage says
Does the Qur’an establish that Muhammad existed?
………………
The logic in the Qur’an is basically this: the Qur’an is the word of Allah, and we know this because it says so in the Qur’an…
Circular logic at its best.
Infidel says
Circular logic is the only logic that’s not haram in islam
gravenimage says
It’s pretty much the only logic Islam has…
Wellington says
A la Lewis Carroll (Charles Dodgson), things just keep getting curiouser and curiouser.
David M says
If Muhammad never existed the amount of people killed in his name is even more ridiculous than it already is.
If the devil exists (as a catholic I am taught he does) it would be one of the devils greatest achievements to get so many people killed over someone who never existed. Either way killing in Muhammad’s name seems to have evil origins.
Terry Gain says
So, if it wasn’t Muhammad who led the conquests that began around 632, who was it?
Infidel says
Terry
My questions exactly. Also, if Mohammed didn’t exist, how about Abu Baqr, Umar, Uthman, Ali and the first few Umayyad caliphs? RS’ analysis looks insightful, except that they open new cans of worms and beget a whole slew of questions
Francis says
The name Muhammad appears only four times but titles such as Messenger and Prophet over three hundred. Our queen is sometimes referred to as ‘Queen Elizabth (II)’ but most often as just ‘The Queen’ or ‘Her Majesty’ or the monarch. In ancient egypt, contrary to the impression we might get that the king was often called Pharaoh (or his Horus or birth name) the Egyptian term translates as ‘His Person’-ie a title.
Proud Islamophobe says
mohammed existed. Only Satan would bring a so-called prophet into a cave, tell him his commands that are the antithesis of G-d’s laws, pretend to be an angel (just as the Bible says), punish women for being the vessel for the Christ, annihilate the Jews for being the vessel for the Christ, make mohammed suicidal, make every moslem a killer of every kind (check Wikipedia on types of killing), and condemn every islamic soul to hell.
Guy born in the middle east. I've seen Islam first hand. says
Precisely; Islam is a disease to this world. This so-called “prophet” was a pedophile that had 12+ wives, had sex with an underage girl when she was 9, whom he betrothed at 8, while Muhammad was in his 50’s. He killed 800+ Jewish men and boys, had loads of ACTUAL slaves and sex slaves, Muhammad ordered the death of dogs, and that’s just scratching the surface! Islam teaches that a woman’s silence is her consent, that you can’t draw faces (no cartoons), nor listen to music. The Quran also teaches that the earth is stationary, flat like a carpet, and that stars are missile-esque beings sent by Allah to hunt down evil spirits, and that the sun sets into a freaking puddle! It teaches that anyone who denounces Allah should be beheaded, and that men should be able to marry 4 women, and that woman’s testimony is worth half of a man’s in court. It’s the only religion that tells you how to rule a country. It’s the only religion that births an oppressively rule. Let’s face it the way it is, Islam is an oppressive system masked with elements of religion, and we need to stop calling it a religion because it is an insult to every other religion on the planet. While every religion tries to stay peaceful, Islam always seems to be the odd ball out! Let’s call it what it is. An illogical disease ideology that hates women, and every non-believer and serves nothing but to take over previously glorious countries and turn them into hellholes.
-Someone from the Middle East.