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gravenimagesays
Muhammad: Last prophet, false prophet — or legend?
………….
These cartoons are hilarious! Very apt questions.
And more and more people are asking them. Even Muslims are scrambling, insisting that he did exist–usually offering no proof of any kind. They are definitely in defensive mode.
Walter Sieruksays
If and is “If” that character Muhammad . the founder of Islam ,really had existed as real man then the words of the prediction of Jesus came true in that what Jesus had taught clearly includes Muhammad the Prophet of Islam.
For Jesus declared “Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.” Matthew 7:15. [N.K.J.V.]
The reason why is so us because the Bible informs ins reader “To the law of the testimony ! If they do not speak according to this word , it is because there is no light in them.” Isaiah 8:20.
In other words of the doctrines of a Prophets or teacher doesn’t match , fit in with , and are even in contradiction to the information provided in the Bible . The Light of the Bible. Then that prophet is a false prophet or that religious teacher is a false teacher.
The prophet Muhammad and the religion he founded denies that Jesus is God. This ,very much contradicts the Bible with reveals Jesus to be God. As found in John 1:1-5. 20;28. Romans 9:5. Hebrews 1:8 Second Peter 1;1. John 5:20..
Also by comparing the Old Testament with the New Testament further shows Jesus to be God , As in comparing Psalm 89:8,9 with Mathew 8:23-27. and likewise comparing Isaiah 46:22,23 with Philippians 2_5-11. reveals Jesus to be God.
In conclusion in the light of the Bible , Muhammad if he actually had existed , was a false prophet.
Furthermore by comparing First Kings 8.89. with Mark 2:8. shows that Jesus is God. Also comparing Daniel 5:25,26 with John 5:25,26. reveals Jesus to be God
Even by comparing the New Testament books together reveals Jesus to be God. As in comparing John 5:22 with Mark 2:8. further confirms the Deity of Jesus
Walter Sieruksays
Many Muslims have said such a statement as “You might believe that Muhammad was a prophet or not.”
.
There is another view that those Muslim say that have overlooked. Which is that Muhammad might had been an actual but not a prophet sent by God. Instead ,he was deceptive lying false prophet sent by Satan to lead many people astray and then straight into hell.
The Bible does does warn that “many false prophets have gone out into the world.”
First John 4:1 . [N.K.J.V.]
tim gallaghersays
So maybe it has been 1400 years of islam, with the whole evil, murderous load of crap of a religion being based on a revolting human being, Muhammad, who more than likely never existed at all, and on the bullshit revelations from a version of god called allah, which the non-existent Muhammad said allah revealed to him. I don’t believe that Muhammad existed, but, because it will be too big a thing for Muslims to actually admit that their evil religion is all based on lies, and all those Muslims for the past 1400 years have been duped, I suspect that most Muslims are never going to admit that Muhammad did not exist and that allah, therefore, is a big fat lie as well. Hopefully, some Muslims will actually have the courage to face the truth and will leave islam and join some better religion or believe in no religion at all. If Muhammad didn’t exist, Islam has to be the greatest scam of all time, and, tragically, 270 million people have been murdered by Muslims and the whole evil creed they have been following is complete crap.
Michael Copelandsays
Mohammed authorised his followers to lie to promote the cause of Islam.
Of course, the same privilege extended to him.
His life’s work was promoting the cause of Islam.
What more need be said?
Hanksays
Hmmm… I never heard of any other religion telling its followers to enjoy the fruits of lying (Taqiya). I wonder what kind of Tree that fruit fell from.
tim gallaghersays
Yes, Michael, I know that Christianity has very high ideals for Christians to try to live up to, including telling the truth, and I suspect that Buddhism is probably pretty similar, so islam, to my mind, is nothing but an evil and barbaric religious ideology. I put it way down there on the level of, say, the old Aztec religion and other evil religions that history has seen. I suppose you would have to say that this vile thing, islam, has been remarkably successful, since it has lasted so long and has over a billion adherents. I do doubt whether many Muslims will ever admit that Muhammad didn’t even exist, but whether the evil creature existed or not probably doesn’t matter all that much because, either way, islam remains an evil ideology which has brought an enormous amount of death and misery to its victims. The human race would be so much better without Islam fouling it up.
James Lincolnsays
tim gallagher says,
“Islam has to be the greatest scam of all time…”
Absolutely, tim.
Makes Bernie Madoff, American fraudster and financier who ran the largest Ponzi scheme in history, look like small potatoes…
tim gallaghersays
Islam certainly left Madoff’s scam way behind. The Islam scam has lasted 1400 years and is still, unfortunately, going strong. I was thinking that the bullshit from Islam is more like the bullshit that is Marxism/ Communism. Communism has been tried for a long time, never works (economies in Communist countries are usually pretty hopeless) and brings death to millions of people (just like Islam) and yet there are many idiots around who still think it is the answer. Of course, Marxism has only been poisoning the world for around 170 years, whereas Islam has been fouling up the human race for 1400 years. Both extremely evil ideologies. Of course, I have heard about Madoff. Something that puzzled me a bit was, did he think he could get away with his Ponzi scheme forever? I thought he would have run off to some other country, to try to avoid the authorities, before they nailed him.
Aussie Infidelsays
Tim, You say that “the bullshit from Islam is more like Marxism/ Communism”; which is quite true, they are all totalitarian organisations. But Islam is also like the Mafia – an organized crime gang which also loves ‘booty’ and uses fear to keep its members in check. But the Mafia probably learned its tricks from the Muslims, since they occupied Sicily for hundreds of years before they were driven out.
gravenimagesays
True–in fact, the Mafia was inspired by Muslim Jizya “protection rackets” in Sicily.
tim gallaghersays
Thanks for the comments, Aussie Infidel and gravenimage. I see things the way Wellington does when he groups Islam, Marxism/ Communism and Nazism together, all three being loathsome, evil ideologies that are a curse on the human race. Yes, I can well imagine the Mafia learning a lot about how behave like completely evil scum from islam. Islam is full of evil ideas and ways of behaving that criminal gangs everywhere would find very inspiring and useful. It would be great if Muslims, in large numbers, did realise that Muhammad more than likely didn’t exist, so Muhammad’s invented god, allah, is bullshit as well and huge numbers of Muslims ditched the vile ideology, but I guess it won’t ever happen.
James Lincolnsays
Aussie infidel and gravenimage,
I had no idea that the mafia, historically, was inspired by muslims for the reasons given.
That is important information to get out.
Any references that you can recommend so that I can learn more about this?
gravenimagesays
Thanks, Tim and James.
James, Raymond Ibrahim touches on some of the similarities and history of the Mafia and Islam here:
But I have definitely read about this in much more detail, quite some time ago, before I understood much about the threat of Islam–perhaps Henri Pirenne’s “Mohammed and Charlemagne”? I need to do some more research here.
Aussie Infidelsays
James, Sorry for the lateness of this reply, but I have a sick wife.
I remember reading something about this issue in a book some decades ago, but I don’t have any reference to it now.
gravenimagesays
Thanks for those inks, and I hope your wife is better.
Jimsays
It would seem that no one could possibly invent a founder of a religion who was more evil. He sounds as though he should be put on trial for crimes against Humanity, a sort of Medieval Nuremberg Trial. That leads me to think that he did exist, because any sane founder of a religion would not invent a prophet who was an insane fanatic full of hatred, anti-Semitism, anti-Christianity, and anti-woman invader comparable to the leaders of Mongol hordes. Of course, it could be that he existed but was a bit less malevolent. Or perhaps he was a mythical figure, like the half-human gods of ancient times in Greece or Egypt or elsewhere in the world. Some stories sound like myths or fairy tales, so they might have been invented. Perhaps he set the example of getting revenge and getting what one wants, and then successive generations magnified and exaggerated the original. The way Vlad the Impaler was transformed into Dracula.
gravenimagesays
Pious Muslims are not sane by decent standards.
notnolibsays
It makes sense that somebody that disgusting and vile could have never existed. Has anybody asked the terrorists at the terror organization CAIR if they understand that their pig-faced dog “prophet”, and inventor of islam and allahahahaha, the moon-god, may not have actually existed?
Joeynsays
Even though Muhammad may never have existed i think the tribe/group of people who invented him were as vile and disgusting as the character they invented. They probably invented him and the Islamic religion to get others to join and assist them in attaining their vile and disgusting goals.
Joeynsays
I guess the moral of the story here is collective ego is much more evil and dangerous than personal ego
Muhammad’s death resulted from being served a dish of poisoned mutton by a Jewish lady at a Kayhbar celebration, according to Islamic sources. This was a test in Judaism for proving whether a prophet was a true prophet of God or a false prophet. True prophets were not affected by poison. If Muhammad did not exist at least the writers of the legendary Mo knew how to write his planned demise, just like script writers do when killing off a character in a movie.
gravenimagesays
I think this was more revenge for Muhammed having murdered her entire family and most of her tribe.
And I have never heard of the idea that Jews poisoned prophets to see if they were false–nor the idea that genuine prophets were immune to poison. Citations, please.
James Lincolnsays
To the “average” muslim, mohammed existed.
Whether this is, in fact, “actually true” would likely make very little difference to the millions upon millions of muslims throughout the world…
Terry Gainsays
More important than what Muslims think is what the rest of us think. Once it is accepted that Islam is not a religion, its advance will be stopped.
The reason why Islam is not being stopped is because Western governments and Interfaith denominations accept it as an Abrahamic “great world religion,” it should be designated as a dangerous religious cult that controls followers through fear, intense indoctrination to hate non-Muslims, as well as fear of being killed for Apostasy among other actions of cruel and unusual inhumane punishments. 1.6 Billion Muslims are under the indoctrinated mindset of this quasi-religious, totalitarian, supremacist, global-domination ideology. It is an Enemy Threat Doctrine to Western Civilization yet allowed to continue as a protected religion.
James Lincolnsays
Interesting point, Terry.
gravenimagesays
Islam is indeed a religion, by all definitions. The claim that this automatically makes it “an Abrahamic great world religion” does not or course follow.
And the claim that it is only dangerous religions that have threatened us is also not the case–some threatening ideologies have been religions, some not.
Note, too, that Mike Ramirez has sneered at Robert Spencer for being “naive” for not wanting to live in a totalitarian society:
He has also implied that Robert Spencer is a failure because his books have not caused all 1.6 billion Muslims to immedidately leave Islam–even though Spencer of course never made such a bizarre claim to begin with. Mike Ramirez has also said that it is up to Infidels to liberate all Muslims from Islam.
If Muhammad is a prophet and Islam a religion then God is capricious.
gravenimagesays
Terry, something being a religion does not mean it is true.
Kephasays
You are right to raise the question of Muhammad’s existence, but I still believe the answer is “yes”, even while admitting this Muhammad ibn Abdallah was not a prophet of God, was badly deluded, was the sort of person against whom Scripture warns us, and was a successful warlord.
There are lots of lines of inquiry in _Did Muhammad Exist?_ that deserve further research. This is why I hope my criticisms of the book have been taken as respectful ones; those of the friend who will argue with you. Was Muhammad building on a kind of Arianism or Ebionitism that survived in Arabia? Why did early Islamic coins show the cross? Why was the earliest Qiblah apparently Petra or Jerusalem? Could the political character of many Hadith about Muhammad and his successors in fact show that the divisions of Sunnite and Shi’ite stretch back into Muhammad’s lifetime; with Muhammad’s contradictory statements recorded in the Hadith suggesting that Muhammad’s leadership involved a delicate balancing act between factions that arose early within his movement? What were the real political, economic, and theological conditions extant in the Arabian Peninsula prior to the rise of Muhammad? Can sources independent of the standard Islamic accounts substantiate or challenge the Islamic narrative? Who were the Hanifs of pre-Islamic Arabia? Do we have more information on them than is given in early Islamic sources?
john smithsays
I also didn’t know the mafia was inspired by the muslim jizya, but it certainly makes a lot of sense.
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gravenimage says
Muhammad: Last prophet, false prophet — or legend?
………….
These cartoons are hilarious! Very apt questions.
And more and more people are asking them. Even Muslims are scrambling, insisting that he did exist–usually offering no proof of any kind. They are definitely in defensive mode.
Walter Sieruk says
If and is “If” that character Muhammad . the founder of Islam ,really had existed as real man then the words of the prediction of Jesus came true in that what Jesus had taught clearly includes Muhammad the Prophet of Islam.
For Jesus declared “Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.” Matthew 7:15. [N.K.J.V.]
The reason why is so us because the Bible informs ins reader “To the law of the testimony ! If they do not speak according to this word , it is because there is no light in them.” Isaiah 8:20.
In other words of the doctrines of a Prophets or teacher doesn’t match , fit in with , and are even in contradiction to the information provided in the Bible . The Light of the Bible. Then that prophet is a false prophet or that religious teacher is a false teacher.
The prophet Muhammad and the religion he founded denies that Jesus is God. This ,very much contradicts the Bible with reveals Jesus to be God. As found in John 1:1-5. 20;28. Romans 9:5. Hebrews 1:8 Second Peter 1;1. John 5:20..
Also by comparing the Old Testament with the New Testament further shows Jesus to be God , As in comparing Psalm 89:8,9 with Mathew 8:23-27. and likewise comparing Isaiah 46:22,23 with Philippians 2_5-11. reveals Jesus to be God.
In conclusion in the light of the Bible , Muhammad if he actually had existed , was a false prophet.
Furthermore by comparing First Kings 8.89. with Mark 2:8. shows that Jesus is God. Also comparing Daniel 5:25,26 with John 5:25,26. reveals Jesus to be God
Even by comparing the New Testament books together reveals Jesus to be God. As in comparing John 5:22 with Mark 2:8. further confirms the Deity of Jesus
Walter Sieruk says
Many Muslims have said such a statement as “You might believe that Muhammad was a prophet or not.”
.
There is another view that those Muslim say that have overlooked. Which is that Muhammad might had been an actual but not a prophet sent by God. Instead ,he was deceptive lying false prophet sent by Satan to lead many people astray and then straight into hell.
The Bible does does warn that “many false prophets have gone out into the world.”
First John 4:1 . [N.K.J.V.]
tim gallagher says
So maybe it has been 1400 years of islam, with the whole evil, murderous load of crap of a religion being based on a revolting human being, Muhammad, who more than likely never existed at all, and on the bullshit revelations from a version of god called allah, which the non-existent Muhammad said allah revealed to him. I don’t believe that Muhammad existed, but, because it will be too big a thing for Muslims to actually admit that their evil religion is all based on lies, and all those Muslims for the past 1400 years have been duped, I suspect that most Muslims are never going to admit that Muhammad did not exist and that allah, therefore, is a big fat lie as well. Hopefully, some Muslims will actually have the courage to face the truth and will leave islam and join some better religion or believe in no religion at all. If Muhammad didn’t exist, Islam has to be the greatest scam of all time, and, tragically, 270 million people have been murdered by Muslims and the whole evil creed they have been following is complete crap.
Michael Copeland says
Mohammed authorised his followers to lie to promote the cause of Islam.
Of course, the same privilege extended to him.
His life’s work was promoting the cause of Islam.
What more need be said?
Hank says
Hmmm… I never heard of any other religion telling its followers to enjoy the fruits of lying (Taqiya). I wonder what kind of Tree that fruit fell from.
tim gallagher says
Yes, Michael, I know that Christianity has very high ideals for Christians to try to live up to, including telling the truth, and I suspect that Buddhism is probably pretty similar, so islam, to my mind, is nothing but an evil and barbaric religious ideology. I put it way down there on the level of, say, the old Aztec religion and other evil religions that history has seen. I suppose you would have to say that this vile thing, islam, has been remarkably successful, since it has lasted so long and has over a billion adherents. I do doubt whether many Muslims will ever admit that Muhammad didn’t even exist, but whether the evil creature existed or not probably doesn’t matter all that much because, either way, islam remains an evil ideology which has brought an enormous amount of death and misery to its victims. The human race would be so much better without Islam fouling it up.
James Lincoln says
tim gallagher says,
“Islam has to be the greatest scam of all time…”
Absolutely, tim.
Makes Bernie Madoff, American fraudster and financier who ran the largest Ponzi scheme in history, look like small potatoes…
tim gallagher says
Islam certainly left Madoff’s scam way behind. The Islam scam has lasted 1400 years and is still, unfortunately, going strong. I was thinking that the bullshit from Islam is more like the bullshit that is Marxism/ Communism. Communism has been tried for a long time, never works (economies in Communist countries are usually pretty hopeless) and brings death to millions of people (just like Islam) and yet there are many idiots around who still think it is the answer. Of course, Marxism has only been poisoning the world for around 170 years, whereas Islam has been fouling up the human race for 1400 years. Both extremely evil ideologies. Of course, I have heard about Madoff. Something that puzzled me a bit was, did he think he could get away with his Ponzi scheme forever? I thought he would have run off to some other country, to try to avoid the authorities, before they nailed him.
Aussie Infidel says
Tim, You say that “the bullshit from Islam is more like Marxism/ Communism”; which is quite true, they are all totalitarian organisations. But Islam is also like the Mafia – an organized crime gang which also loves ‘booty’ and uses fear to keep its members in check. But the Mafia probably learned its tricks from the Muslims, since they occupied Sicily for hundreds of years before they were driven out.
gravenimage says
True–in fact, the Mafia was inspired by Muslim Jizya “protection rackets” in Sicily.
tim gallagher says
Thanks for the comments, Aussie Infidel and gravenimage. I see things the way Wellington does when he groups Islam, Marxism/ Communism and Nazism together, all three being loathsome, evil ideologies that are a curse on the human race. Yes, I can well imagine the Mafia learning a lot about how behave like completely evil scum from islam. Islam is full of evil ideas and ways of behaving that criminal gangs everywhere would find very inspiring and useful. It would be great if Muslims, in large numbers, did realise that Muhammad more than likely didn’t exist, so Muhammad’s invented god, allah, is bullshit as well and huge numbers of Muslims ditched the vile ideology, but I guess it won’t ever happen.
James Lincoln says
Aussie infidel and gravenimage,
I had no idea that the mafia, historically, was inspired by muslims for the reasons given.
That is important information to get out.
Any references that you can recommend so that I can learn more about this?
gravenimage says
Thanks, Tim and James.
James, Raymond Ibrahim touches on some of the similarities and history of the Mafia and Islam here:
https://www.meforum.org/4923/ten-ways-the-mafia-and-islam-are-similar
William Dalrymple also touches on the Mafia’s likely Islamic roots here:
“William Dalrymple on Sicily’s Islamic past”
https://www.ft.com/content/dc14c6b6-b7d4-440a-8ca3-56fcbb1e4fb2
But I have definitely read about this in much more detail, quite some time ago, before I understood much about the threat of Islam–perhaps Henri Pirenne’s “Mohammed and Charlemagne”? I need to do some more research here.
Aussie Infidel says
James, Sorry for the lateness of this reply, but I have a sick wife.
There is an article by Raymond Ibrahim some years ago at:
https://www.raymondibrahim.com/2014/12/07/ten-ways-the-mafia-and-islam-are-similar/
And another more recent one, ‘How Islam Influenced History’s Most ‘Evil’ Christians at:
https://speakingaboutnews.com/how-islam-influenced-historys-most-evil-christians/
I remember reading something about this issue in a book some decades ago, but I don’t have any reference to it now.
gravenimage says
Thanks for those inks, and I hope your wife is better.
Jim says
It would seem that no one could possibly invent a founder of a religion who was more evil. He sounds as though he should be put on trial for crimes against Humanity, a sort of Medieval Nuremberg Trial. That leads me to think that he did exist, because any sane founder of a religion would not invent a prophet who was an insane fanatic full of hatred, anti-Semitism, anti-Christianity, and anti-woman invader comparable to the leaders of Mongol hordes. Of course, it could be that he existed but was a bit less malevolent. Or perhaps he was a mythical figure, like the half-human gods of ancient times in Greece or Egypt or elsewhere in the world. Some stories sound like myths or fairy tales, so they might have been invented. Perhaps he set the example of getting revenge and getting what one wants, and then successive generations magnified and exaggerated the original. The way Vlad the Impaler was transformed into Dracula.
gravenimage says
Pious Muslims are not sane by decent standards.
notnolib says
It makes sense that somebody that disgusting and vile could have never existed. Has anybody asked the terrorists at the terror organization CAIR if they understand that their pig-faced dog “prophet”, and inventor of islam and allahahahaha, the moon-god, may not have actually existed?
Joeyn says
Even though Muhammad may never have existed i think the tribe/group of people who invented him were as vile and disgusting as the character they invented. They probably invented him and the Islamic religion to get others to join and assist them in attaining their vile and disgusting goals.
Joeyn says
I guess the moral of the story here is collective ego is much more evil and dangerous than personal ego
Mike Ramirez says
Muhammad’s death resulted from being served a dish of poisoned mutton by a Jewish lady at a Kayhbar celebration, according to Islamic sources. This was a test in Judaism for proving whether a prophet was a true prophet of God or a false prophet. True prophets were not affected by poison. If Muhammad did not exist at least the writers of the legendary Mo knew how to write his planned demise, just like script writers do when killing off a character in a movie.
gravenimage says
I think this was more revenge for Muhammed having murdered her entire family and most of her tribe.
And I have never heard of the idea that Jews poisoned prophets to see if they were false–nor the idea that genuine prophets were immune to poison. Citations, please.
James Lincoln says
To the “average” muslim, mohammed existed.
Whether this is, in fact, “actually true” would likely make very little difference to the millions upon millions of muslims throughout the world…
Terry Gain says
More important than what Muslims think is what the rest of us think. Once it is accepted that Islam is not a religion, its advance will be stopped.
Mike Ramirez says
The reason why Islam is not being stopped is because Western governments and Interfaith denominations accept it as an Abrahamic “great world religion,” it should be designated as a dangerous religious cult that controls followers through fear, intense indoctrination to hate non-Muslims, as well as fear of being killed for Apostasy among other actions of cruel and unusual inhumane punishments. 1.6 Billion Muslims are under the indoctrinated mindset of this quasi-religious, totalitarian, supremacist, global-domination ideology. It is an Enemy Threat Doctrine to Western Civilization yet allowed to continue as a protected religion.
James Lincoln says
Interesting point, Terry.
gravenimage says
Islam is indeed a religion, by all definitions. The claim that this automatically makes it “an Abrahamic great world religion” does not or course follow.
And the claim that it is only dangerous religions that have threatened us is also not the case–some threatening ideologies have been religions, some not.
Note, too, that Mike Ramirez has sneered at Robert Spencer for being “naive” for not wanting to live in a totalitarian society:
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2021/07/if-muhammad-is-legendary-why-were-stories-invented-about-him-that-portray-him-in-a-negative-light#comment-2359599
He has also implied that Robert Spencer is a failure because his books have not caused all 1.6 billion Muslims to immedidately leave Islam–even though Spencer of course never made such a bizarre claim to begin with. Mike Ramirez has also said that it is up to Infidels to liberate all Muslims from Islam.
Salient comments on this thread:
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2021/07/did-muhammad-exist-intellectually-exhilarating-leaves-no-stone-unturned
Terry Gain says
If Muhammad is a prophet and Islam a religion then God is capricious.
gravenimage says
Terry, something being a religion does not mean it is true.
Kepha says
You are right to raise the question of Muhammad’s existence, but I still believe the answer is “yes”, even while admitting this Muhammad ibn Abdallah was not a prophet of God, was badly deluded, was the sort of person against whom Scripture warns us, and was a successful warlord.
There are lots of lines of inquiry in _Did Muhammad Exist?_ that deserve further research. This is why I hope my criticisms of the book have been taken as respectful ones; those of the friend who will argue with you. Was Muhammad building on a kind of Arianism or Ebionitism that survived in Arabia? Why did early Islamic coins show the cross? Why was the earliest Qiblah apparently Petra or Jerusalem? Could the political character of many Hadith about Muhammad and his successors in fact show that the divisions of Sunnite and Shi’ite stretch back into Muhammad’s lifetime; with Muhammad’s contradictory statements recorded in the Hadith suggesting that Muhammad’s leadership involved a delicate balancing act between factions that arose early within his movement? What were the real political, economic, and theological conditions extant in the Arabian Peninsula prior to the rise of Muhammad? Can sources independent of the standard Islamic accounts substantiate or challenge the Islamic narrative? Who were the Hanifs of pre-Islamic Arabia? Do we have more information on them than is given in early Islamic sources?
john smith says
I also didn’t know the mafia was inspired by the muslim jizya, but it certainly makes a lot of sense.