I have read the Quran three times and now on my fourth reading with your Critical Qur’an. My impression of the Quran is negative. The predominant theme that stands out is the constant criticism and insult of non-believers. I would say well over 50% of the Qur’an is negative commentary against infidels. It’s almost nonstop in some sections. Such poison.
Blair Goodmansays
For me also, now that I am more than halfway through Robert’s Qur’an, I find the repetition monotonous. I wonder how many Muslims have actually read it straight through with a critical mind and remained devout. Few I hope.
gravenimagesays
Most Muslims who memorize the Qur’an are doing so in a language they do not understand–just pure rote memorization.
gravenimagesays
The Qur’an *is* monotonous, and has none of the poetry of the Bible. It varies between tedium and bloody horror–*not* a fun read. My reading Mr. Spencer’s edition of the Qur’an is my fifth reading of that foul tome–ugly stuff, but important for us to know.
notoislamsays
It takes only once to get your final conclusion-The Koran has alsways been negative because the ilk of mullahs act that way. The word HATE still applies .
Ade Fegansays
Please support Robert by buying his books
However, read a quran that muslins read too …….. and get it directly from the horses mouth
gravenimagesays
Ade, Spencer’s Critical Qur’an does lead to a greater understanding of the Qur’an–and he does not change the text itself in any way.
Ade Fegansays
For me “to your religion and to me my religion” is not about tolerance in any way
It’s about sticking two fingers up to unbelievers
It’s cowardly and underhanded ..
In light of later verses which reveal Mo’s true colours
“And verily WE gave unto Moses the scripture”
koran 2 v 87
So allah is claiming to be the author of the Torah and thus equating himself with the Biblical God.
But the teachings of the koran are in TOTAL violation with the law system revealed in the Torah
{The Two Chief commandments cannot be satisfied,nor the the Exodus 20 Laws,the Golden rule does is impossible{=the MEANING of the Law of Moses Matthew 7 v 12},the concept that people are made in the spiritual image of God[violated by koran 98:6 that says non -muslims are the WORST OF CREATED BEINGS”}
allah is clearly impersonating the Bibical God.
And for any muslims who want proof?Critical analysis of the koran.
allah’s challenge
Koran 10:94
Follow allah’s command given to muhammed to ask those who know the Bible and see if is it true that the koran teaches contrary to the Law given- thus allah cannot claim authorship of the Torah as these laws were never changed..Your islamic scholars don’t want you to see this;why do you think the Bible{actually confirmed by allah koran 3:3}is hard to find in islamic countries?
gravenimagesays
FYI, Muslims claim that Jews and Christians have “corrupted” the Torah (“Torat”) and Gospel (“Injeel”), and that they somehow used to be in full agreement with the vicious Qur’an. This makes no sense, but is widely believed.
FYIsays
Further..
Why are non-muslims the WORST of created beings?{Koran 98:6}.
Do you agree?YES or NO?
Why does allah send GOOD people to hell?What sense does that make?
Why are the Two Chief commandments missing in islam[given that in Matthew 22 v 37-40
“The whole Law of Moses and the teachings of the prophets depend on these 2 chief laws” and how could allah have missed the GOLDEN RULE?
“lo!We did reveal the Torah wherein are guidance and alight”
Koran 5:44
So Then how could allah have completely missed the Two Chief commandments and the Golden Rule ,ALL Biblical prophecy and the importance of actually OBEYING the Exodus 20 law{=the purpose of the Torah}-not breaking them as allah permits.
The fact that allah misunderstands Christian Theology{which he thinks is a polytheism which involves MARY},Judaism{Jews don’t believe in anyone called ‘Ezra is the son of allah’},Astronomy etc shows allah is lacking in omniscience.
Someone claiming to be god who is not all knowing?.
How can allah claim to be all knowing when he gets everything wrong?
Stop being afraid of the koran,stop listening to scholars interpreting it all for you..at least think for yourself:CRITICAL thinking.
Sherrysays
@FYI — WELL SAID, very good & easily understood comparisons.
gravenimagesays
+1
࿗Infidel࿘says
Watched this last night. One thing that struck me about the presentation was the era of English used in the translations. I had no idea that Yusuf Ali and Pickthall were 20th century translators who deliberately chose 17th century English to make the quran hard to follow. Which is why “The Critical Qur’an” is so important
About MbS, I think that w/ his new alliances w/ China and Russia and his new treaty w/ Iran, he’s no longer interested in Trump era demands to stop supporting jihad, since it’s no longer even a demand of the West. Also, w/ the Saudi deals w/ Hamas recently, I think that the era of Saudi Arabia strongly opposing the Muslim Brotherhood may be coming to an end. However, I still think that he sees this electric car fad putting an end to the oil economy, so not sure whether he’ll stop squelching any islamic attempts to resist his modernizing reforms. He may also be taking lessons in history on what happened to Gorbachev and being careful to do too much to fast
gravenimagesays
Infidel, I think that Yusuf Ali and Pickthall used 17th-century language in order to equate the Qur’an with the King James version of the Bible, in an attempt to give it unearned gravitas.
Davesays
he Critical Qur’an is too difficult to use as it does not have chapter/verse in the header but only the name of the chapter.
Wanweilinsays
My copy has chapter numbers, sura name, English name and verse numbers. Taqiyya much?
Davesays
So, pretend you are searching for 22:17. Do you flip through the book looking for 22 in the header, then find verse 17; or do you go to the Table of Contents, find chapter 17, see the page number, go to the page and then find verse 17?
My copy, which I returned, had only chapter NAMES in the header and NOT the number.
There is no attempt to lie on my part.
David W Goodmansays
oops, find 22 in the header.
gravenimagesays
Dave, this is how you navigate the Qur’an:
For Qur’an 22:17, you find chapter (or Surah) 22: that would be Surah Al-Hajj. Then, 17 refers to the verse number (or Ayat). There are 78 Ayats or verses in Surah 22.
In this way–albeit not in content–it is much like navigating the Bible by chapter and verse.
Here is Qur’an 22:17:
Surely those who believe (in the Qur’an) and those who are Jews and the Sabeans and the Christians and the Magians and those who associate (others with Allah)– surely Allah will decide between them on the day of resurrection; surely Allah is a witness over all things.
Davesays
“it is much like navigating the Bible by chapter and verse.”
That is exactly the problem. There are 114 surahs in the Qur’an. It’s hard enough to navigate the Bible by having to remember the order of the chapters. So references to the Qur’an are NOT given by surah name and verse but rather by chapter NUMBER and verse. Roberts work was flawed because it omitted including the surah number in the header of each page. This will undoubtedly be corrected in future editions.
Blair Goodmansays
I agree, I have written the sura number at the top of each page of Robert’s book. This is no problem, but I do wonder why the sura number wasn’t inserted at the top of each page.
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Wanweilin says
Robert,
I have read the Quran three times and now on my fourth reading with your Critical Qur’an. My impression of the Quran is negative. The predominant theme that stands out is the constant criticism and insult of non-believers. I would say well over 50% of the Qur’an is negative commentary against infidels. It’s almost nonstop in some sections. Such poison.
Blair Goodman says
For me also, now that I am more than halfway through Robert’s Qur’an, I find the repetition monotonous. I wonder how many Muslims have actually read it straight through with a critical mind and remained devout. Few I hope.
gravenimage says
Most Muslims who memorize the Qur’an are doing so in a language they do not understand–just pure rote memorization.
gravenimage says
The Qur’an *is* monotonous, and has none of the poetry of the Bible. It varies between tedium and bloody horror–*not* a fun read. My reading Mr. Spencer’s edition of the Qur’an is my fifth reading of that foul tome–ugly stuff, but important for us to know.
notoislam says
It takes only once to get your final conclusion-The Koran has alsways been negative because the ilk of mullahs act that way. The word HATE still applies .
Ade Fegan says
Please support Robert by buying his books
However, read a quran that muslins read too …….. and get it directly from the horses mouth
gravenimage says
Ade, Spencer’s Critical Qur’an does lead to a greater understanding of the Qur’an–and he does not change the text itself in any way.
Ade Fegan says
For me “to your religion and to me my religion” is not about tolerance in any way
It’s about sticking two fingers up to unbelievers
It’s cowardly and underhanded ..
In light of later verses which reveal Mo’s true colours
Ade Fegan says
THIS WEKKS THIS WEEK IN JIHAD (you saw it here first !):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEWDsGEV8sw
FYI says
“And verily WE gave unto Moses the scripture”
koran 2 v 87
So allah is claiming to be the author of the Torah and thus equating himself with the Biblical God.
But the teachings of the koran are in TOTAL violation with the law system revealed in the Torah
{The Two Chief commandments cannot be satisfied,nor the the Exodus 20 Laws,the Golden rule does is impossible{=the MEANING of the Law of Moses Matthew 7 v 12},the concept that people are made in the spiritual image of God[violated by koran 98:6 that says non -muslims are the WORST OF CREATED BEINGS”}
allah is clearly impersonating the Bibical God.
And for any muslims who want proof?Critical analysis of the koran.
allah’s challenge
Koran 10:94
Follow allah’s command given to muhammed to ask those who know the Bible and see if is it true that the koran teaches contrary to the Law given- thus allah cannot claim authorship of the Torah as these laws were never changed..Your islamic scholars don’t want you to see this;why do you think the Bible{actually confirmed by allah koran 3:3}is hard to find in islamic countries?
gravenimage says
FYI, Muslims claim that Jews and Christians have “corrupted” the Torah (“Torat”) and Gospel (“Injeel”), and that they somehow used to be in full agreement with the vicious Qur’an. This makes no sense, but is widely believed.
FYI says
Further..
Why are non-muslims the WORST of created beings?{Koran 98:6}.
Do you agree?YES or NO?
Why does allah send GOOD people to hell?What sense does that make?
Why are the Two Chief commandments missing in islam[given that in Matthew 22 v 37-40
“The whole Law of Moses and the teachings of the prophets depend on these 2 chief laws” and how could allah have missed the GOLDEN RULE?
“lo!We did reveal the Torah wherein are guidance and alight”
Koran 5:44
So Then how could allah have completely missed the Two Chief commandments and the Golden Rule ,ALL Biblical prophecy and the importance of actually OBEYING the Exodus 20 law{=the purpose of the Torah}-not breaking them as allah permits.
The fact that allah misunderstands Christian Theology{which he thinks is a polytheism which involves MARY},Judaism{Jews don’t believe in anyone called ‘Ezra is the son of allah’},Astronomy etc shows allah is lacking in omniscience.
Someone claiming to be god who is not all knowing?.
How can allah claim to be all knowing when he gets everything wrong?
Stop being afraid of the koran,stop listening to scholars interpreting it all for you..at least think for yourself:CRITICAL thinking.
Sherry says
@FYI — WELL SAID, very good & easily understood comparisons.
gravenimage says
+1
࿗Infidel࿘ says
Watched this last night. One thing that struck me about the presentation was the era of English used in the translations. I had no idea that Yusuf Ali and Pickthall were 20th century translators who deliberately chose 17th century English to make the quran hard to follow. Which is why “The Critical Qur’an” is so important
About MbS, I think that w/ his new alliances w/ China and Russia and his new treaty w/ Iran, he’s no longer interested in Trump era demands to stop supporting jihad, since it’s no longer even a demand of the West. Also, w/ the Saudi deals w/ Hamas recently, I think that the era of Saudi Arabia strongly opposing the Muslim Brotherhood may be coming to an end. However, I still think that he sees this electric car fad putting an end to the oil economy, so not sure whether he’ll stop squelching any islamic attempts to resist his modernizing reforms. He may also be taking lessons in history on what happened to Gorbachev and being careful to do too much to fast
gravenimage says
Infidel, I think that Yusuf Ali and Pickthall used 17th-century language in order to equate the Qur’an with the King James version of the Bible, in an attempt to give it unearned gravitas.
Dave says
he Critical Qur’an is too difficult to use as it does not have chapter/verse in the header but only the name of the chapter.
Wanweilin says
My copy has chapter numbers, sura name, English name and verse numbers. Taqiyya much?
Dave says
So, pretend you are searching for 22:17. Do you flip through the book looking for 22 in the header, then find verse 17; or do you go to the Table of Contents, find chapter 17, see the page number, go to the page and then find verse 17?
My copy, which I returned, had only chapter NAMES in the header and NOT the number.
There is no attempt to lie on my part.
David W Goodman says
oops, find 22 in the header.
gravenimage says
Dave, this is how you navigate the Qur’an:
For Qur’an 22:17, you find chapter (or Surah) 22: that would be Surah Al-Hajj. Then, 17 refers to the verse number (or Ayat). There are 78 Ayats or verses in Surah 22.
In this way–albeit not in content–it is much like navigating the Bible by chapter and verse.
Here is Qur’an 22:17:
Surely those who believe (in the Qur’an) and those who are Jews and the Sabeans and the Christians and the Magians and those who associate (others with Allah)– surely Allah will decide between them on the day of resurrection; surely Allah is a witness over all things.
Dave says
“it is much like navigating the Bible by chapter and verse.”
That is exactly the problem. There are 114 surahs in the Qur’an. It’s hard enough to navigate the Bible by having to remember the order of the chapters. So references to the Qur’an are NOT given by surah name and verse but rather by chapter NUMBER and verse. Roberts work was flawed because it omitted including the surah number in the header of each page. This will undoubtedly be corrected in future editions.
Blair Goodman says
I agree, I have written the sura number at the top of each page of Robert’s book. This is no problem, but I do wonder why the sura number wasn’t inserted at the top of each page.